General Election 2017
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 matt_himself  Matataland 30 Apr 17 2.19pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Polls suggesting Labour are catching up again. This election looks like it will be about who can get their demographic out. May is banking on a high turnout among older voters to get her big majority, while Labour need to get youth turnout up. A survey recently showed that if only under 40s voted, Labour would win. Thing is, I actually think you'd have to say that Labour has a better chance of raising the turnout, given they have the groundteam, whereas the Tories are almost toally reliant on media as their groundteam is practically non-existent. The Tories are setting themselves up for a serious hubristic fall IMO. Will be a lot closer than people think. How many seats do you think labour will win in scotland? Without a breakthrough in Scotland, Labour will not be able to win.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 30 Apr 17 2.30pm |
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Originally posted by leifandersonshair
I think it'll all come down to how voters weigh up Brexit (which the Tories give the impression, regardless of reality, of doing a good job) vs everything else (where the Tories are making a right hash of public services, benefit reform etc). As already noted, voter turnout will probably be key. I think the Lib Dems will probably have a decisive impact- probably gain at least some seats, and swing crucial seats by depriving Labour/Tories of votes. And will UKIP's hilariously inept performance see further collapse of their vote? And will their voters bother to turnout, and if so where will they vote? Still a whole lot of campaigning to go. The whole basis of labour's campaign is a tissue of lies.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 30 Apr 17 2.54pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
How many seats do you think labour will win in scotland? Without a breakthrough in Scotland, Labour will not be able to win. Realistically, I don't think Labour's aim this election is to win outright. It's to prevent the Tories forming a strengthened majority, which will (a ) prevent May pushing for UK tax haven status and abandoning all migrants and refugees, and (b ) strengthen the hand of Corbyn and his team against the toxic and petulant Progress group in the party. Edited by serial thriller (30 Apr 2017 3.05pm)
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| matt_himself Matataland 30 Apr 17 3.22pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Realistically, I don't think Labour's aim this election is to win outright. It's to prevent the Tories forming a strengthened majority, which will (a ) prevent May pushing for UK tax haven status and abandoning all migrants and refugees, and (b ) strengthen the hand of Corbyn and his team against the toxic and petulant Progress group in the party. Edited by serial thriller (30 Apr 2017 3.05pm) This is great, as it highlights what is going through the minds of 'progressives', which is a mixture of delusion and paranoia. A) Britain will not become a tax haven. It is a threat being implied by the government in order to drive a free trade deal out of the EU. If you cannot see that, then you a) have no experience of negotiation, b) believe whatever Owen Jones tells you to believe, or c) are blinded by prejudice; Edited by matt_himself (30 Apr 2017 3.22pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 30 Apr 17 4.13pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
This is great, as it highlights what is going through the minds of 'progressives', which is a mixture of delusion and paranoia. A) Britain will not become a tax haven. It is a threat being implied by the government in order to drive a free trade deal out of the EU. If you cannot see that, then you a) have no experience of negotiation, b) believe whatever Owen Jones tells you to believe, or c) are blinded by prejudice; Edited by matt_himself (30 Apr 2017 3.22pm) A: But Philip Hammond has suggested we will. You're right though: I have no experience of negotiating settlements between international organisations and national bodies on issues of sovereignty and taxation. But the question I would ask is this: if the Tories are implying threats which they don't actually mean, what are we meant to believe in anything they're saying? They're trying to make this election about Brexit, but you say that what they're telling us is an intentional lie. So are we just meant to blindly trust to their superior knowledge of negotiation? B: I'm not downplaying what are serious incidents in the party. But as someone with experience of the party, this is what I've seen. The Labour head office has provided less than half of the funding to the Corbyn team than it did to Milliband. This is part of a clear attempt to overthrow him (the twice democratically elected leader of the party!), which has played out in public through mass resignations, leadership challenges, and even public leaks by some MPs. Behind closed doors, the number of leaks by these politicians has been unprecedented, and has seriously affected the ability for the party to be run in a cohesive way. You then have Blair openly advocating voting for pro-Remain Tories and maintaining his membership, whilst paid up members are suspended because of previous affiliations to other parties. This isn't a case of isolated incidents: this is a sustained, structural attack on a democratically elected leader, the likes of which I doubt has been seen in Western Europe. Corbyn has consistently appointed hostile MPs to the shadow cabinet, maintains Tom Watson as deputy in an attempt to appease the right, has backed off mandatory reselection, even for MPs who were parachuted in by the NEC against the wishes of their local parties, and refused to whip on nearly all the laws passed through the commons in his tenure. But there's only so much he can do, and some of his MPs - mainly from Progress - would rather see May PM than Corbyn.
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| matt_himself Matataland 30 Apr 17 4.25pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
A: But Philip Hammond has suggested we will. You're right though: I have no experience of negotiating settlements between international organisations and national bodies on issues of sovereignty and taxation. But the question I would ask is this: if the Tories are implying threats which they don't actually mean, what are we meant to believe in anything they're saying? They're trying to make this election about Brexit, but you say that what they're telling us is an intentional lie. So are we just meant to blindly trust to their superior knowledge of negotiation? B: I'm not downplaying what are serious incidents in the party. But as someone with experience of the party, this is what I've seen. The Labour head office has provided less than half of the funding to the Corbyn team than it did to Milliband. This is part of a clear attempt to overthrow him (the twice democratically elected leader of the party!), which has played out in public through mass resignations, leadership challenges, and even public leaks by some MPs. Behind closed doors, the number of leaks by these politicians has been unprecedented, and has seriously affected the ability for the party to be run in a cohesive way. You then have Blair openly advocating voting for pro-Remain Tories and maintaining his membership, whilst paid up members are suspended because of previous affiliations to other parties. This isn't a case of isolated incidents: this is a sustained, structural attack on a democratically elected leader, the likes of which I doubt has been seen in Western Europe. Corbyn has consistently appointed hostile MPs to the shadow cabinet, maintains Tom Watson as deputy in an attempt to appease the right, has backed off mandatory reselection, even for MPs who were parachuted in by the NEC against the wishes of their local parties, and refused to whip on nearly all the laws passed through the commons in his tenure. But there's only so much he can do, and some of his MPs - mainly from Progress - would rather see May PM than Corbyn. A. Partisan crap and pathetic attempt at word twisting to suit your myopic view, and probable petty personal vendetta. You should know full well that the government aren't going to show their hand before negotiations with the EU start. What I am saying is that the tax haven is a threat. Would the Tories go through with it if they had too, yes. However, that's simply not going to happen because real politik will kick in and a deal will be done on trade with the EU. You and your sort are determined to push the idea that a deal won't happen and that the Tories have to tell us everything before they negotiate with the EU. That would be suicide and not something you lot would expect Jezza to do if he, heaven forbid, had to responsibility to negotiate Brexit.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 30 Apr 17 4.39pm |
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Well I tried to keep it sensible...
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| Nest 30 Apr 17 5.49pm |
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"There are many complex reasons why people go to food banks" says May [Tweet Link]
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| Nest 30 Apr 17 6.05pm |
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Theresa May faces fresh accusations of 'hiding' after Scotland rally publicly listed as child's birthday party
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| .TUX. 30 Apr 17 6.12pm |
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Originally posted by susmik
Try this one then and it might enlighten you further! [Link] Nope, that's still a poor effort. Try...... [Link]
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| Hrolf The Ganger 30 Apr 17 6.17pm |
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Originally posted by Nest
"There are many complex reasons why people go to food banks" says May [Tweet Link]How many are new immigrants just out of interest?
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| matt_himself Matataland 30 Apr 17 6.18pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Well I tried to keep it sensible... You didn't. You tried to provoke an argument and didn't like the response. I have met your sort before and will do so again. Nothing more than bedroom revolutionaries whom enjoy the comforts of a capitalist existence whilst being a Surrey Che Guevara wannabe.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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