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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Mapletree  Croydon 08 Apr 19 11.28pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
When you say Brexit voters don’t want no deal - which deals do you think they anticipated at the time? My suspicion is that no deal was the assumed position. As ever, all guess work. ‘This isn’t what the people voted for’. Well prove it then. Truth is there would have been 17.4m different rationales.
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Teddy Eagle  08 Apr 19 11.34pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I believe the vote for Brexit could only have happened in a Britain that has forgotten what a European war was like, the fearfulness of the Cold War and the terror of Northern Ireland at the worst times. People get all brave again after a while. If Brexit happens I genuinely fear for the tenuous peace in Ireland. But then, when your sister gets showered with glass from an IRA bomb it kind of gets imprinted on the psyche. You’d have to be well over 80 to remember Europe at war. Maybe Brexit was voted for by people who are optimistic rather than driven by fear. I take your point about your sister - I was on the tube behind the one blown up at Aldgate in 2005 and see that ongoing threat to the country as more pressing.
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| Maine Eagle USA 08 Apr 19 11.38pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
When you say Brexit voters don’t want no deal - which deals do you think they anticipated at the time? My suspicion is that no deal was the assumed position. Teddy is that all that strikes you from my post? Nothing else you would care to address? Regarding your question, the verbiage of article 50 states under procedure, section 2, and I quote: A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3)[12] of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council [of the European Union], acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. So I would say it was fairly clear that a withdrawal agreement would be negotiated, and it was not a widespread viewpoint that we would simply leave without a deal or any discussions or agreements with the EU on how to leave. If I recall one of the aforementioned pack of lies by the leave campaign was the whopper by Liam Fox that the deal would be the "easiest thing in human history". So I guess as this was one of the main lies of the era, about how easy the WA would be, then those people reading that understood there would be a deal, and we would not automatically leave with no deal.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Teddy Eagle 08 Apr 19 11.41pm |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Teddy is that all that strikes you from my post? Nothing else you would care to address? Regarding your question, the verbiage of article 50 states under procedure, section 2, and I quote: A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3)[12] of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council [of the European Union], acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. So I would say it was fairly clear that a withdrawal agreement would be negotiated, and it was not a widespread viewpoint that we would simply leave without a deal or any discussions or agreements with the EU on how to leave. If I recall one of the aforementioned pack of lies by the leave campaign was the whopper by Liam Fox that the deal would be the "easiest thing in human history". So I guess as this was one of the main lies of the era, about how easy the WA would be, then those people reading that understood there would be a deal, and we would not automatically leave with no deal. The question remains. When given a binary choice to leave or remain what conditions do you think leavers anticipated? Had the choice been between several options then fair enough. But it wasn’t.
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 08 Apr 19 11.42pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
When you say Brexit voters don’t want no deal - which deals do you think they anticipated at the time? My suspicion is that no deal was the assumed position
As per usual every leave voter seems to assume their perception of what leave meant is the right one / same as everyone else’s / the only option that was on the ballot paper etc etc etc Whatever At this rate, none of the above
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Maine Eagle USA 08 Apr 19 11.56pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
The question remains. When given a binary choice to leave or remain what conditions do you think leavers anticipated? Had the choice been between several options then fair enough. But it wasn’t. As I just said I believe they understood there would be the need to negotiate a withdrawal agreement, ergo no deal was not the default option.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Apr 19 12.03am |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
As I just said I believe they understood there would be the need to negotiate a withdrawal agreement, ergo no deal was not the default option. OK. You believe it. I don’t. Which using Abbott’s Formula means I lose by 750.
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Apr 19 12.05am |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
When you say Brexit voters don’t want no deal - which deals do you think they anticipated at the time? My suspicion is that no deal was the assumed position
As per usual every leave voter seems to assume their perception of what leave meant is the right one / same as everyone else’s / the only option that was on the ballot paper etc etc etc Whatever At this rate, none of the above You assume I was a leave voter? For the record I wasn’t. I wasn’t a remain voter either.
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| Maine Eagle USA 09 Apr 19 12.13am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
OK. You believe it. I don’t. Which using Abbott’s Formula means I lose by 750. Guess you missed Liam Fox's tweet/comments then, just a part of the top 10 of whoppers in the pack of lies spun by the Leave campaign.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Apr 19 12.27am |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Guess you missed Liam Fox's tweet/comments then, just a part of the top 10 of whoppers in the pack of lies spun by the Leave campaign. Right. Does anyone expect the truth? Every manifesto is a litany of lies. Theyre politicians - they lie for a living. Are all the remain scare stories true? No.
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 09 Apr 19 12.30am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Right. Does anyone expect the truth? Every manifesto is a litany of lies. Theyre politicians - they lie for a living. Are all the remain scare stories true? No. the biggest lie was 1973. ''ah yes, but its only an economic union, for Trade and all that, nothing political, not a United States of Europe''
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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| Maine Eagle USA 09 Apr 19 1.15am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Right. Does anyone expect the truth? Every manifesto is a litany of lies. Theyre politicians - they lie for a living. Are all the remain scare stories true? No. Some more than others. Some lie more than others aswell. Leave campaigners lied their pants off, and some are still at it. Lie after lie, mistruth after mistruth. Its shameful. The vote was passed on the back of an absolute pack of lies.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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cpfc_chap  koh samui 09 Apr 19 1.45am |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Some more than others. Some lie more than others aswell. Leave campaigners lied their pants off, and some are still at it. Lie after lie, mistruth after mistruth. Its shameful. The vote was passed on the back of an absolute pack of lies. But the biggest whopper has to be Cameron's 'you the people will decide!'
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Apr 19 5.01am |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Some more than others. Some lie more than others aswell. Leave campaigners lied their pants off, and some are still at it. Lie after lie, mistruth after mistruth. Its shameful. The vote was passed on the back of an absolute pack of lies. Sorry to repeat this but Corbyn and co have been vehemently anti-Europe since we joined the Common Market but now are suddenly pro? This is a lie. All they are doing is exploiting the situation.
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Pussay Patrol  09 Apr 19 6.06am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Sorry to repeat this but Corbyn and co have been vehemently anti-Europe since we joined the Common Market but now are suddenly pro? This is a lie. All they are doing is exploiting the situation. surely the point is still valid? the vote was based on information and implications of which were not known at the time, and false claims and lies regardless of who said it? I'm not quite sure which side of the debate you've taken on this?
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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| Midlands Eagle 09 Apr 19 6.18am |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
surely the point is still valid? the vote was based on information and implications of which were not known at the time, and false claims and lies regardless of who said it? A bit like every General Election then especially 2010 when the Liberals made manifesto claims that they later reneged on. Should that election have been re-run?
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| Stirlingsays 09 Apr 19 6.25am |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Some more than others. Some lie more than others aswell. Leave campaigners lied their pants off, and some are still at it. Lie after lie, mistruth after mistruth. Its shameful. The vote was passed on the back of an absolute pack of lies.
All politician's lie.......when the argument is, 'my politician lies less than your politician'.....you're kind of getting lost in the weeds. If someone is prepared to lie, complaining about the size of the whopper becomes a matter of semantics. In my view, this isn't a credible argument for Remain. The best arguments for the EU centre on the holistic aims of the organization......Not something I believe in.....but they represent its only defence in my view.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 becky over the moon 09 Apr 19 6.56am |
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Originally posted by Maine Eagle
Regarding your question, the verbiage of article 50 states under procedure, section 2, and I quote: A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3)[12] of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council [of the European Union], acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. So I would say it was fairly clear that a withdrawal agreement would be negotiated, and it was not a widespread viewpoint that we would simply leave without a deal or any discussions or agreements with the EU on how to leave. If I recall one of the aforementioned pack of lies by the leave campaign was the whopper by Liam Fox that the deal would be the "easiest thing in human history". So I guess as this was one of the main lies of the era, about how easy the WA would be, then those people reading that understood there would be a deal, and we would not automatically leave with no deal. Ok, so that sets out exactly what THE UNION must do - it does not say that it is mandatory for the leaving country to accept the terms offered. Since most leavers accepted from the start that we would never get a decent deal offered by the EU, hence why so many felt no-deal would be the default starting position.
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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