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September 28 2023 9.38pm

Palace 1 Chelsea 5

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 Feb 13 11.27am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

For someone who is obviously quite articulate I'm struggling to understand why you'd want to troll one of Palace's main sites and do the 'my club is better than your club' schoolyard stuff.

Emulating idiots who may do it on your board is surely just childish. What you're doing isn't 'banter', it's a wind up, pure and simple.

Of course Chelsea are a better football club now. However in basically becoming Abramovic's plaything your club lost its independence and quite a lot of respect from other clubs. Yeah, lots of us envy you your success but it's also true that we don't really respect your club. You're sold out, become a Russian's club. You lot bend over for him, I say this genuinely it's embarrassing to watch. He's a positive for you sure but any denial of the negatives is false bluster or simple ignorance or denial.

For most Chelsea fans, in the round, this is a good deal...To become a massive club this probably has to happen as in today's world, money has disfigured everything so much...You don't need to develop and produce anything yourself, you can just buy success. Good for you, I really mean that.

Look at the difference in resources between Palace and Chelsea yet our youth team isn't only nearly exclusively from our own area but it's playing with the elites. This is something we are really proud of.

Moses and Zaha will always feel proud wearing our shirt not because of how much money we can pay them but because this is where they started and were first loved.

No big time charlies can take that away from us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2013 11.29am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 14 Feb 13 11.33am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Quote chelski at 14 Feb 2013 11.25am

Quote NEILLO at 14 Feb 2013 11.16am

If we got promoted, the new income will sustain Palace for some years and also enable much needed ground development. That's IF we get there. IF we do, what are our chances of staying there ? Not good. Without the spending power of the likes of Chelsea and Man City and to a slightly lesser degree, Man Utd, you become just an also-ran at best. Ask any Arsenal fan. At worst you could become another Portsmouth in chasing a dream by spending money you haven't got.

More money is NOT coming '' into the game ''...it's going into the PL with the clubs at the top getting the lions share. It's certainly not filtering through the football pyramid in this country. That effectively stopped when clubs decided to look abroad for talent rather than down the leagues.

The spending has '' enhanced English football worldwide '' - agreed it has, but again, only to the benefit of the Few. If you can afford to sign and pay the top players, yes of course it increases wider interest - it's just not very competitive. The Champions League places are only competed for by five teams at the most - then there is a huge gap before you get to the Evertons and the rest...they cannot compete because they don't have the spending power. If ' the rest ' unearth a good player, then that player becomes an immediate target for those with money.

As for Chelsea's youth teams, how many of those are populated by young ' imports ' ? I don't know, genuine question, but there is a track record of signing young players for those sides as opposed to developing them. I could be mistaken, as you were with your Jordan/Coppell comment.

As i said before, no jealousy on my part re Chelsea's success. Two of my best mates are Chelsea fans and I've enjoyed seeing them get some payback for all the years when Chelsea were not winning anything. But as a club I do find it hard to find anything to like about them !


Some good points and I agree that I think its hard to break in to the top few without massive investment. However, with the new Premier league rules and Euopean Fair play rules I think you'll find an increased expenditure on the club and less on player wages. Although I am not one who condemns player for earning what they can. However, its always been difficult to break in to the TOP group. Clubs have to grow and build up their fan bases and ability to generate money. At the end of the day they are a busines.

Your question about Chelsea youth 'imports' is an important one. However, whilst it was true when Abramovich first arrived a lot of youth imports were bought (Arsenal are the 'best' or 'worst' at least depending on your perspective)it is definately NOT true in recent years. The vast amount of youth players are English. My previous post on this issue answers that.


Understood - I was actually referring to players purchased at youth level...whether from abroad or domestically...I believe Sinclair and Betrand are examples.

But hey, main debate for me is around the spending powers...for what it's worth my Chelsea mates actually agree with the points I have been making.

Although a QPR fan may well argue that you can spend a fortune and still be crap

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View chelski's Profile chelski Flag london 14 Feb 13 11.38am Send a Private Message to chelski Add chelski as a friend

Quote BigTimeCharlie at 14 Feb 2013 11.20am

Quote chelski at 14 Feb 2013 10.48am

Disagree, the spending has greatly enhanced English football worldwide, hence the massive growth in TV money next year, which by the way you will benefit from massively if you get promotes. Will you not take that money as a matter of principle?!?!?!
In a way you will be riding on the back of our success. Its because the big clubs are so successful more money is coming in to the game and our game has moved to a massive world wide audience. Additionally, we have the amazing European Games we witness every season.
In terms of ticket prices Chelsea FC have frozen them over the last few seasons and there are many opportunities to go 'on the cheap'. Its the top priced tickets that are expensive.
Actually wasnt really 'chuffed' by the u18 result just thought it funny how Palace fans shout loudly when they win an U18 game but when they get 'battered' they fall silent.
Any closer analysis of our youth system since Abramovic will show that over the last few years we have amazing talent emerging. We are consistantly the best at every age group across the country (as shown by the endless list of trophies at each age group) and players emerging now are being heralded as the very best about. Just look at the amount that represent their respective countries.

And how many of those have developed into top talent in the Chelsea first team? Oh yeah, that's right, none. How many are even plying their trade in the Premier League? That's right, none. Don't even think about trying to claim Bristol Rovers' Scott Sinclair or Gillingham's Ryan Bertrand.

And more to the point, moving away from this complete non argument you've started in the first place, what kind of sad individual supports the champions of Europe and yet still derives pleasure from taunting a lower tier club's fans about an under 18s result? Seriously mate...


My point is about emerging talent. Try reading it properly.

Jack Cork - Southampton
Carlton Cole - West Ham
John Terry - Chelsea
Michael Mancienne - Chelsea and Hamburg
Josh McEachran - Chelsea and Middlesborough (on loan)
Nathaniel Chalaobah - Chelsea and Watford (on loan) -scored against you last week

 

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View Leiceagle's Profile Leiceagle Flag Great Glen Leicestershire 14 Feb 13 11.39am Send a Private Message to Leiceagle Add Leiceagle as a friend

Anyway, 37 years ago today was the best Valentines Day ever: FA Cup 5th Round; Chelscum 2 Palace 3. Peter Taylor's greatest day in a Palace shirt. Brilliant stuff, mind you current chelski "fans" probably dont realise that they had a club back then! The dog track, the rubbish skin head fans, all the hangers on, Ron "chopper" Harris, Baby "Butch" Wilkins - 14th Feb 1976 was SUPERB!

Man City, Chelski etc have lost their souls and now attract different and arrogent supporters. From a financial point of view Palace need to be in the "Premiership" but, otherwise, you can keep it as far as I'm concerned.

 

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View chelski's Profile chelski Flag london 14 Feb 13 11.41am Send a Private Message to chelski Add chelski as a friend

Quote NEILLO at 14 Feb 2013 11.33am

Quote chelski at 14 Feb 2013 11.25am

Quote NEILLO at 14 Feb 2013 11.16am

If we got promoted, the new income will sustain Palace for some years and also enable much needed ground development. That's IF we get there. IF we do, what are our chances of staying there ? Not good. Without the spending power of the likes of Chelsea and Man City and to a slightly lesser degree, Man Utd, you become just an also-ran at best. Ask any Arsenal fan. At worst you could become another Portsmouth in chasing a dream by spending money you haven't got.

More money is NOT coming '' into the game ''...it's going into the PL with the clubs at the top getting the lions share. It's certainly not filtering through the football pyramid in this country. That effectively stopped when clubs decided to look abroad for talent rather than down the leagues.

The spending has '' enhanced English football worldwide '' - agreed it has, but again, only to the benefit of the Few. If you can afford to sign and pay the top players, yes of course it increases wider interest - it's just not very competitive. The Champions League places are only competed for by five teams at the most - then there is a huge gap before you get to the Evertons and the rest...they cannot compete because they don't have the spending power. If ' the rest ' unearth a good player, then that player becomes an immediate target for those with money.

As for Chelsea's youth teams, how many of those are populated by young ' imports ' ? I don't know, genuine question, but there is a track record of signing young players for those sides as opposed to developing them. I could be mistaken, as you were with your Jordan/Coppell comment.

As i said before, no jealousy on my part re Chelsea's success. Two of my best mates are Chelsea fans and I've enjoyed seeing them get some payback for all the years when Chelsea were not winning anything. But as a club I do find it hard to find anything to like about them !


Some good points and I agree that I think its hard to break in to the top few without massive investment. However, with the new Premier league rules and Euopean Fair play rules I think you'll find an increased expenditure on the club and less on player wages. Although I am not one who condemns player for earning what they can. However, its always been difficult to break in to the TOP group. Clubs have to grow and build up their fan bases and ability to generate money. At the end of the day they are a busines.

Your question about Chelsea youth 'imports' is an important one. However, whilst it was true when Abramovich first arrived a lot of youth imports were bought (Arsenal are the 'best' or 'worst' at least depending on your perspective)it is definately NOT true in recent years. The vast amount of youth players are English. My previous post on this issue answers that.


Understood - I was actually referring to players purchased at youth level...whether from abroad or domestically...I believe Sinclair and Betrand are examples.

But hey, main debate for me is around the spending powers...for what it's worth my Chelsea mates actually agree with the points I have been making.

Although a QPR fan may well argue that you can spend a fortune and still be crap


LOL Both Sinclair and Bertrand were bought at 16 at the beginning of the Abramovich era. We still buy foreign talent. Its just no-where near as much as it was.
Sorry but I love the fact we can buy the best players in the world.

 

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View chelski's Profile chelski Flag london 14 Feb 13 11.43am Send a Private Message to chelski Add chelski as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 14 Feb 2013 11.27am

For someone who is obviously quite articulate I'm struggling to understand why you'd want to troll one of Palace's main sites and do the 'my club is better than your club' schoolyard stuff.

Emulating idiots who may do it on your board is surely just childish. What you're doing isn't 'banter', it's a wind up, pure and simple.

Of course Chelsea are a better football club now. However in basically becoming Abramovic's plaything your club lost its independence and quite a lot of respect from other clubs. Yeah, lots of us envy you your success but it's also true that we don't really respect your club. You're sold out, become a Russian's club. You lot bend over for him, I say this genuinely it's embarrassing to watch. He's a positive for you sure but any denial of the negatives is false bluster or simple ignorance or denial.

For most Chelsea fans, in the round, this is a good deal...To become a massive club this probably has to happen as in today's world, money has disfigured everything so much...You don't need to develop and produce anything yourself, you can just buy success. Good for you, I really mean that.

Look at the difference in resources between Palace and Chelsea yet our youth team isn't only nearly exclusively from our own area but it's playing with the elites. This is something we are really proud of.

Moses and Zaha will always feel proud wearing our shirt not because of how much money we can pay them but because this is where they started and were first loved.

No big time charlies can take that away from us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2013 11.29am)


Actaully I just thought the first post was a laugh. But if you can be bothered to read (and I know I wouldn't lol) all the posts I have made subsequently, they have been in response to some not so nice things said by others.

 

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View chelski's Profile chelski Flag london 14 Feb 13 11.44am Send a Private Message to chelski Add chelski as a friend

Quote Leiceagle at 14 Feb 2013 11.39am

Anyway, 37 years ago today was the best Valentines Day ever: FA Cup 5th Round; Chelscum 2 Palace 3. Peter Taylor's greatest day in a Palace shirt. Brilliant stuff, mind you current chelski "fans" probably dont realise that they had a club back then! The dog track, the rubbish skin head fans, all the hangers on, Ron "chopper" Harris, Baby "Butch" Wilkins - 14th Feb 1976 was SUPERB!

Man City, Chelski etc have lost their souls and now attract different and arrogent supporters. From a financial point of view Palace need to be in the "Premiership" but, otherwise, you can keep it as far as I'm concerned.


Seemed to have a lot of soul in the Allianz arena on 19/5/2012. And its sad you have to go so far back to recall a good day in your football life.

Edited by chelski (14 Feb 2013 11.47am)

 

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View chelski's Profile chelski Flag london 14 Feb 13 11.47am Send a Private Message to chelski Add chelski as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 14 Feb 2013 11.27am


Look at the difference in resources between Palace and Chelsea yet our youth team isn't only nearly exclusively from our own area but it's playing with the elites. This is something we are really proud of.

Moses and Zaha will always feel proud wearing our shirt not because of how much money we can pay them but because this is where they started and were first loved.

No big time charlies can take that away from us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Feb 2013 11.29am)


and so you should be proud. Victor is brilliant. Not sure on Zaha yet as jury out.

Also look closely at your youth team now. Quite a few are from other clubs, although that not a bad thing it just means that they are ALL your products.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 14 Feb 13 11.48am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

It is extraordinary that anyone has bothered to indulge this little twerp. In my experience it is impossible to reason with Sky armchair sports fans who hitch their jalopy to the brightest star. They simply cannot understand the concept of supporting a real football team that you grew up with; one which does not receive saturation media coverage. The best thing to do is: give them a condescending smile, a little pat on the head and then walk away.

 

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View snytaxx's Profile snytaxx Flag Beijing 14 Feb 13 11.48am Send a Private Message to snytaxx Add snytaxx as a friend

Quote chelski at 14 Feb 2013 11.16am

Quote snytaxx at 14 Feb 2013 11.05am

Quote chelski at 14 Feb 2013 10.48am

Disagree, the spending has greatly enhanced English football worldwide, hence the massive growth in TV money next year, which by the way you will benefit from massively if you get promotes. Will you not take that money as a matter of principle?!?!?!
In a way you will be riding on the back of our success. Its because the big clubs are so successful more money is coming in to the game and our game has moved to a massive world wide audience. Additionally, we have the amazing European Games we witness every season.
In terms of ticket prices Chelsea FC have frozen them over the last few seasons and there are many opportunities to go 'on the cheap'. Its the top priced tickets that are expensive.
Actually wasnt really 'chuffed' by the u18 result just thought it funny how Palace fans shout loudly when they win an U18 game but when they get 'battered' they fall silent.
Any closer analysis of our youth system since Abramovic will show that over the last few years we have amazing talent emerging. We are consistantly the best at every age group across the country (as shown by the endless list of trophies at each age group) and players emerging now are being heralded as the very best about. Just look at the amount that represent their respective countries.


Thats not really true is it.. Yes the game is now more popular abroad and = greater revenues. But the majority of that money goes to places where it is of no benefit to football at all. e.g. Ashley Cole's wages and Rupert Murdoch's offshore bank account.

You fail to mention the cost to the English national team as countless Premier league sides have effectively shut out the development of English players by denying them first team opportunities, opting to bring in international players instead for a greater fee. The EPL has gorged itself over TV revenues at the expense of the English National team. This is not a dig a Chelsea so much, but you were one of the first teams to start this practice.

Edited by snytaxx (14 Feb 2013 11.06am)


Finally an educated debate! I think there is an element of truth regarding the problems with youth development at the bigger clubs. I think also that when you are looking for instant success there is a need to buy the right players to do this. Chelsea did it, as have City. However a closer analysis of our youth system over the last few years indicates a sea-change in terms of the amount of foreign talent we buy and the amount we produce. As stated in a previous post the vast majority of our youth team players are english.

Additionally Chelsea are developing the system of loaning very good young players out and if they do well then bringing them back. Look closely at our loan players and you will see that they are forging careers at the highest level and if they are successful (to the level to play for us) they will return and be part of the team. Palace even benefited from this with Scott Sinclair.

There is not just an element about it... its completely true!

You may now finally actually start to be giving a slight toss about the national team but the damage is done. Due to teams like Chelsea (not just, but your up there), a whole generation of English players simply haven't made the grade. We now find ourselves with an ageing squad and no primary replacements anywhere near their quality in most areas of the pitch.

Its all very well loaning players out, but this doesn't go far enough. In order for future England starlets to really compete with the worlds best at a world cup tournament etc, they need to be competing with them at first team premier league standard, loaning them out will help, but to continuously loan out a player wont stabilise his career at all. They need to get into your first team, however its almost wrong of Chelsea to promise this when this task appears to be almost unbelievable which the top brass at Chelsea are happy to bring in 20 million + players each transfer window to sustain a throphy push.


 

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View Bin Liner's Profile Bin Liner Flag London , Southfields 14 Feb 13 11.51am Send a Private Message to Bin Liner Add Bin Liner as a friend

I wonder if he's ever heard of Paul Cannonville

 


Portillo's teeth removed to boost pound

Boy roasts himself in sacrifice to Chris Kelly

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View Leiceagle's Profile Leiceagle Flag Great Glen Leicestershire 14 Feb 13 11.53am Send a Private Message to Leiceagle Add Leiceagle as a friend

Sad?
No, just happy to support a club that keeps football in perspective and who's fans dont cry "crisis" whenever they dont win a home game.

 

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