Jeremy Corbyn
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jamiemartin721  Reading 28 Jun 17 12.11pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
Corbyn who promised a "Kinder,gentler politics". Corbyn believes he is the new 'Messiah'.Him and McDonnell are going around after the election as if they were the winners when Labour sustained a third successive defeat and by a considerable margin at that. Edited by Willo (28 Jun 2017 11.32am) And May is like Lazarus. Problem is I think, how much everyone built up just how badly beaten Corbyn would be, from his own party MPs to the Media and his opposition / dissenters. If they hadn't marked him up as 'the death of the Labour party', then the Labour party would probably be in a leadership selection by now. Problem is your guys had a 'Dead Cert Landslider' deliver a humiliating failure, whilst they had the unelectable unpopular man, prove to be actually about as popular as the last few Labour leaders. It creates the appearance of failure, and success. In many ways the people responsible for Corbyn still being the Labour leader is all those who wrote him off, tried to stab him in the back, undermine him etc. In the end they ended up cermenting his position
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 Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Jun 17 12.23pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
And May is like Lazarus. Problem is I think, how much everyone built up just how badly beaten Corbyn would be, from his own party MPs to the Media and his opposition / dissenters. If they hadn't marked him up as 'the death of the Labour party', then the Labour party would probably be in a leadership selection by now. Problem is your guys had a 'Dead Cert Landslider' deliver a humiliating failure, whilst they had the unelectable unpopular man, prove to be actually about as popular as the last few Labour leaders. It creates the appearance of failure, and success. In many ways the people responsible for Corbyn still being the Labour leader is all those who wrote him off, tried to stab him in the back, undermine him etc. In the end they ended up cermenting his position The Conservative Party never talked in these terms at all, nor did I on HOL. Corbyn benefitted NOT because of his excellence but because of the abysmal Conservative manifesto and campaign.Labour behaviour since the election is one of a sinister cult not a serious alternative Government. I tore Corbyn and McDonnell to shreds last night in my 'Local' with liberal helpings of vitriol and belicose diatribe - What was my blood pressure nurse ?? No good for hypertension so perhaps I would be better advised NOT to get into all of this on HOL and concentrate on the football debates.Labour and Corbyn are NOT worth it. Edited by Willo (28 Jun 2017 12.28pm)
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| Username Horsham 28 Jun 17 12.33pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
The Conservative Party never talked in these terms at all, nor did I on HOL. Corbyn benefitted NOT because of his excellence but because of the abysmal Conservative manifesto and campaign.Labour behaviour since the election is one of a sinister cult not a serious alternative Government. I tore Corbyn and McDonnell to shreds last night in my 'Local' with liberal helpings of vitriol and belicose diatribe - What was my blood pressure nurse ?? No good for hypertension so perhaps I would be better advised NOT to get into all of this on HOL and concentrate on the football debates.Labour and Corbyn are NOT worth it. Edited by Willo (28 Jun 2017 12.28pm) Please, continue.
Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time. |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Jun 17 12.34pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
The Conservative Party never talked in these terms at all, nor did I on HOL. Corbyn benefitted NOT because of his excellence but because of the abysmal Conservative manifesto and campaign. Labour behaviour since the election is one of a sinister cult not a serious alternative Government. Hubris. They expected to increase their majority significantly - and were very confident that Labour was in disarray and would take a beating. They were also confident enough in their manifesto and leader, to call a snap election. If that's the case, how come the Conservatives gained seats. Of course they're playing up the positives, just like Conservatives are. That's politics and PR. People don't just vote for the other side because the Conservatives f**ked up. Usually protest votes go to smaller parties. Corbyn ran a very good campaign, and motivated a very significant support basis, that also contributed to turning around a position where he was 'f**ked in the polls, to achieving a turn around'. I thought he was a dead man walking, who'd be battered into ridicule at the first national election - but he did remarkably well, and won over a lot of people who aren't set voters - Locally, they demolished a 12 year sitting Tory Rob Wilson and their campaign was very focused and tight in Reading, which I'm assuming was the case elsewhere. The problem for the Conservatives isn't just that May and the Manifesto was poor. Its that Corbyn might very well be far more popular than expected.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 28 Jun 17 12.43pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Where will they go? A lot to Ireland with its lower corporation tax. Others around the globe if it suits their business. Others will of course go bankrupt.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Jun 17 1.24pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Hubris. They expected to increase their majority significantly - and were very confident that Labour was in disarray and would take a beating. They were also confident enough in their manifesto and leader, to call a snap election. If that's the case, how come the Conservatives gained seats. Of course they're playing up the positives, just like Conservatives are. That's politics and PR. People don't just vote for the other side because the Conservatives f**ked up. Usually protest votes go to smaller parties. Corbyn ran a very good campaign, and motivated a very significant support basis, that also contributed to turning around a position where he was 'f**ked in the polls, to achieving a turn around'. I thought he was a dead man walking, who'd be battered into ridicule at the first national election - but he did remarkably well, and won over a lot of people who aren't set voters - Locally, they demolished a 12 year sitting Tory Rob Wilson and their campaign was very focused and tight in Reading, which I'm assuming was the case elsewhere. The problem for the Conservatives isn't just that May and the Manifesto was poor. Its that Corbyn might very well be far more popular than expected. The Corbyn worship has echoes of the hippy movement and to a degree, the civil rights movement of the 60's. The young love the naive idea that we can put flowers in gun barrels and ban the nukes. That policy would have seen us part of the Soviet Union by now. Minorities like the idea that someone can save them from their perceived inequality. That's why so many are religious. They would rather depend on the help of the 'almighty', than help themselves. It's a sad day indeed when people put their faith in a man like Corbyn. If the country had been run by Communists, he would have been a Fascist. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Jun 2017 1.24pm)
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| Username Horsham 28 Jun 17 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The Corbyn worship has echoes of the hippy movement and to a degree, the civil rights movement of the 60's. The young love the naive idea that we can put flowers in gun barrels and ban the nukes. That policy would have seen us part of the Soviet Union by now. Minorities like the idea that someone can save them from their perceived inequality. That's why so many are religious. They would rather depend on the help of the 'almighty', than help themselves. It's a sad day indeed when people put their faith in a man like Corbyn. If the country had been run by Communists, he would have been a Fascist. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Jun 2017 1.24pm) You say that like it's a bad thing...
Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time. |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Jun 17 1.36pm |
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Originally posted by Username
You say that like it's a bad thing... It is a very bad thing. It is using peoples 'hope' for political gain. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Jun 2017 1.38pm)
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 1.39pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
A lot to Ireland with its lower corporation tax. Others around the globe if it suits their business. Others will of course go bankrupt. I've lived in Ireland. I can assure you people will not flock there to avoid what would be fairly small increases in tax in historical and current global terms. Ireland already has a lower CT rate and has done for years. Why isn't London full of tumbleweed with the corporations having deserted the city for the bright lights of Dublin years ago? For businesses it's a lot more important to have a pool of skilled, happy, healthy workers. How does a nation achieve such things? Through investment in education, healthcare and public services. How does it fund such investment? Taxation. Most countries around the world accept this. Just look at CT rates in the rest of the G7 and across the EU. You have to make a profit to pay CT so you're suggesting that companies would go bankrupt on cashflow terms, which would be down really to overstretching themselves or a lack of decent borrowing or financing ability. This wasn't a massive problem when we had 28% CT a decade ago (Ireland for the record have had a 12.5% rate since 2003). We see just today that more people support an increase in tax to increase public spending than advocate the status quo. Hardly any want it cut and those that do are by and large those that will benefit personally. Cuts in CT haven't led to increased corporate investment, they've really just led to bigger bonuses for CEOs and bankers despite them having done nothing to deserve it.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Jun 17 1.40pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Hubris. They expected to increase their majority significantly - and were very confident that Labour was in disarray and would take a beating. They were also confident enough in their manifesto and leader, to call a snap election. If that's the case, how come the Conservatives gained seats. Of course they're playing up the positives, just like Conservatives are. That's politics and PR. People don't just vote for the other side because the Conservatives f**ked up. Usually protest votes go to smaller parties. Corbyn ran a very good campaign, and motivated a very significant support basis, that also contributed to turning around a position where he was 'f**ked in the polls, to achieving a turn around'. I thought he was a dead man walking, who'd be battered into ridicule at the first national election - but he did remarkably well, and won over a lot of people who aren't set voters - Locally, they demolished a 12 year sitting Tory Rob Wilson and their campaign was very focused and tight in Reading, which I'm assuming was the case elsewhere. The problem for the Conservatives isn't just that May and the Manifesto was poor. Its that Corbyn might very well be far more popular than expected. Corbyn was able to run his campaign on his own terms with NO challenge from the Conservatives at all regarding his economically illeterate policies etc etc. We have seen the Corbyn/McDonnell masks slipping as a result of Grenfell.In vilifying the Conservatives over Grenfell and playing politics with tragedy the consequence could well be public revulsion. This is Labour, a sinister cult with their radical socialist project. Edited by Willo (28 Jun 2017 1.58pm)
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Jun 17 1.42pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It is a very bad thing. It is using peoples 'hope' for political gain. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (28 Jun 2017 1.38pm) Absolutely right. I loved May's retort about Corbyn saying one thing to the many and another to the few in realtion to Trident !!!! Anyway off my 'Soapbox' for now !!!!
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
Absolutely right. I loved May's factually incorrect retort about Corbyn saying one thing to the many and another to the few in realtion to Trident !!!! Anyway off my 'Soapbox' for now !!!! EFA
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