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Venezuela - socialist paradise

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Hard Brexit 03 Nov 15 10.31pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote leifandersonshair at 03 Nov 2015 7.08pm

The politics and the system work- but, as Serial notes, state socialism is unsustainable in the current global climate of unfettered capitalism. Just as, in a world of successful socialist states, the single capitalist country would inevitably fail.

Calling socialism 'mumbo jumbo' is lazy and no real argument. Capitalism is a bunch of old hogwash. See? I can do it too!


Please provide an example of where the politics and system work in a socialist state, where living standards are raised consistently and where democracy thrives.

 


"The real question is, at the end of the day, do we want to run our country? Are we proud of who we are? Are we happy to be just a star on somebody else's flag, or do we want to be an independent nation? - Nigel Farage

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View Bert the Head's Profile Bert the Head Flag Epsom 03 Nov 15 11.29pm Send a Private Message to Bert the Head Add Bert the Head as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 2.40am

Economy in worst state since the 1940's:

[Link]

Viva la revolution!


"While the current crisis is largely down to the plummet in oil price" is a bit of the story you over looked. Its also a free paper and you you get what you pay for when it comes to news.

Also there are a number of countries where the poor are much worse off but because they follow Capitalism no one points the finger. The infant mortality rate, for example. is lower in Venezuela than in Paraguay and so is absolute poverty. No one complains about poverty in Paraguay though. Perhaps City AM will publish a story on Paraguay as another example of capitalism failing?

There are hundreds of countries in the world that follow Capitalism but are dirt poor yet the system itself is never questioned.

Edited by Bert the Head (03 Nov 2015 11.29pm)

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Hard Brexit 04 Nov 15 6.40am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Bert the Head at 03 Nov 2015 11.29pm

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 2.40am

Economy in worst state since the 1940's:

[Link]

Viva la revolution!


"While the current crisis is largely down to the plummet in oil price" is a bit of the story you over looked. Its also a free paper and you you get what you pay for when it comes to news.

Also there are a number of countries where the poor are much worse off but because they follow Capitalism no one points the finger. The infant mortality rate, for example. is lower in Venezuela than in Paraguay and so is absolute poverty. No one complains about poverty in Paraguay though. Perhaps City AM will publish a story on Paraguay as another example of capitalism failing?

There are hundreds of countries in the world that follow Capitalism but are dirt poor yet the system itself is never questioned.

Edited by Bert the Head (03 Nov 2015 11.29pm)

I do apologise but I do not follow your gibberish in your first paragraph.

I have not overlooked anything. The Venezuelan government has pursued a social engineering policy, which has cost billions and is based solely upon the price of oil. They have not diversified their economy or have taken measures to reduce the effects of an oil price shock on their economy. The result is that basic commodities are scarce and because of their foolish foreign policy & reckless behaviour towards foreign companies, no one wants to trade in the country. This means people will suffer, financially and health wise as foods & medicines are unavailable.

It is a criminal act but as you are a leftie darling, I am sure you blame the U.S., big business or bankers for this horrible situation rather than the real culprits in the Venezuelan government.


Edited by matt_himself (04 Nov 2015 6.42am)

 


"The real question is, at the end of the day, do we want to run our country? Are we proud of who we are? Are we happy to be just a star on somebody else's flag, or do we want to be an independent nation? - Nigel Farage

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 04 Nov 15 7.11am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote Bert the Head at 03 Nov 2015 11.29pm

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 2.40am

Economy in worst state since the 1940's:

[Link]

Viva la revolution!


"While the current crisis is largely down to the plummet in oil price" is a bit of the story you over looked. Its also a free paper and you you get what you pay for when it comes to news.

Also there are a number of countries where the poor are much worse off but because they follow Capitalism no one points the finger. The infant mortality rate, for example. is lower in Venezuela than in Paraguay and so is absolute poverty. No one complains about poverty in Paraguay though. Perhaps City AM will publish a story on Paraguay as another example of capitalism failing?

There are hundreds of countries in the world that follow Capitalism but are dirt poor yet the system itself is never questioned.


Paraquay has loo rolls.


Edited by Bert the Head (03 Nov 2015 11.29pm)


 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 04 Nov 15 8.14am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 10.31pm

Quote leifandersonshair at 03 Nov 2015 7.08pm

The politics and the system work- but, as Serial notes, state socialism is unsustainable in the current global climate of unfettered capitalism. Just as, in a world of successful socialist states, the single capitalist country would inevitably fail.

Calling socialism 'mumbo jumbo' is lazy and no real argument. Capitalism is a bunch of old hogwash. See? I can do it too!


Please provide an example of where the politics and system work in a socialist state, where living standards are raised consistently and where democracy thrives.

Venezuela would probably fit that bill. Do you include Sweden?


Edited by jamiemartin721 (04 Nov 2015 8.14am)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Hard Brexit 04 Nov 15 8.26am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Nov 2015 8.14am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 10.31pm

Quote leifandersonshair at 03 Nov 2015 7.08pm

The politics and the system work- but, as Serial notes, state socialism is unsustainable in the current global climate of unfettered capitalism. Just as, in a world of successful socialist states, the single capitalist country would inevitably fail.

Calling socialism 'mumbo jumbo' is lazy and no real argument. Capitalism is a bunch of old hogwash. See? I can do it too!


Please provide an example of where the politics and system work in a socialist state, where living standards are raised consistently and where democracy thrives.

Venezuela would probably fit that bill. Do you include Sweden?


Edited by jamiemartin721 (04 Nov 2015 8.14am)

Please provide evidence that Venezuela is democratic. From everything I have read, the government there is doing a lot of things to restrict freedom that if they happened elsewhere, you and your sort would be up in arms over.

Sweden isn't socialist. You can delude yourself that the 'Nordic model' is socialism but it clearly isn't. It is a free market economy, highly taxed and with a social safety net. It is not socialist by definition.

 


"The real question is, at the end of the day, do we want to run our country? Are we proud of who we are? Are we happy to be just a star on somebody else's flag, or do we want to be an independent nation? - Nigel Farage

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 04 Nov 15 8.45am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 5.24pm

Quote serial thriller at 03 Nov 2015 5.04pm

My reading of the situation in Venezuela is this. Since the fall of the Berlin wall and the expansion of global capitalism in to virtually every corner of the globe, state Socialism has faced a two-fold problem in terms of maintaining itself. Either it attempts to fight against the tide, building nationalist movements like you saw in France in the 80s or Corbyn at the moment, which push for socialist policies within a framework of global capitalism. This almost inevitably leads to compromise and disappointment, especially if the grassroots movement that propel them fade away.

The other option is the Venezuelan model of becoming a pretty insular society, relying on funding via a high level export. You see it in Scandanavia to an extent as well. Problem is, once that export evaporates or demand goes down, you're pretty f*cked. I actually think in the past few decades Venezuela has done some brilliant things for its people, and been relatively democratic and open in the process. But ultimately without a concerted global move away from capitalism, it is hard to see a way of making it stick.

The problem is that the politics and the system doesn't work. Everyone knows that this 'mumbo jumbo' is simply an expensive social engineering project which is doomed to failure from the start.

Also, I guess its which country you compare the country with when calling it 'relatively democratic'. Are you using the DPRK as the comparison model?

[Link]


Your first paragraph is just empty nonsense Matt.

The link you posted, however, is fairly interesting. From what I've read, the political situation in Venezuela is certainly at breaking point, but what that article completely fails to identify is the other side of the story.

The other side of the story is that democracy is incredibly difficult to maintain in Venezuela because the opposition seem to have such a total disregard for it. The 2014 US Federal reserve gave $5 million to opposition groups in Venezuela, while coups are commonplace. Even after Maduro was narrowly elected in 2013, there was an attempted coup, despite independent bodies suggesting it was a fair and transparent election. This isn't to suggest that Venezuela is some model for democratic socialism, but the lack of balance in that piece is questionable.

And when I talk about relatively, I'll give you a couple of examples. Look at the recent Turkish elections, in a country often cited as a beacon of thriving capitalism. The day before the election, the government closed down the major opposition news channel; added to that, Turkey has more journalists in jail than any other country in the world, and even an 11 year old child was threatened with legal action by the government after criticising Erdogan on facebook. Meanwhile, the June attacks on rival Kurdish party HQ have gone completely unpunished, the government reentered combat with the PKK days before the election, despite the latter stating their desire for peace until the elections were concluded. Police violence, particularly in Kurdish areas, on election day was rife, and Erdogan now hopes to push through a law to transfer power away from parliament and towards himself.

Or perhaps a better parallel to Venezuela would be Congo, a resource rich nation that has embraced Capitalism, and is now one of the fastest growing economies on the planet...even while over half of its people don't have access to clean drinking water.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Hard Brexit 04 Nov 15 9.02am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 04 Nov 2015 8.45am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 5.24pm

Quote serial thriller at 03 Nov 2015 5.04pm

My reading of the situation in Venezuela is this. Since the fall of the Berlin wall and the expansion of global capitalism in to virtually every corner of the globe, state Socialism has faced a two-fold problem in terms of maintaining itself. Either it attempts to fight against the tide, building nationalist movements like you saw in France in the 80s or Corbyn at the moment, which push for socialist policies within a framework of global capitalism. This almost inevitably leads to compromise and disappointment, especially if the grassroots movement that propel them fade away.

The other option is the Venezuelan model of becoming a pretty insular society, relying on funding via a high level export. You see it in Scandanavia to an extent as well. Problem is, once that export evaporates or demand goes down, you're pretty f*cked. I actually think in the past few decades Venezuela has done some brilliant things for its people, and been relatively democratic and open in the process. But ultimately without a concerted global move away from capitalism, it is hard to see a way of making it stick.

The problem is that the politics and the system doesn't work. Everyone knows that this 'mumbo jumbo' is simply an expensive social engineering project which is doomed to failure from the start.

Also, I guess its which country you compare the country with when calling it 'relatively democratic'. Are you using the DPRK as the comparison model?

[Link]


Your first paragraph is just empty nonsense Matt.

The link you posted, however, is fairly interesting. From what I've read, the political situation in Venezuela is certainly at breaking point, but what that article completely fails to identify is the other side of the story.

The other side of the story is that democracy is incredibly difficult to maintain in Venezuela because the opposition seem to have such a total disregard for it. The 2014 US Federal reserve gave million to opposition groups in Venezuela, while coups are commonplace. Even after Maduro was narrowly elected in 2013, there was an attempted coup, despite independent bodies suggesting it was a fair and transparent election. This isn't to suggest that Venezuela is some model for democratic socialism, but the lack of balance in that piece is questionable.

And when I talk about relatively, I'll give you a couple of examples. Look at the recent Turkish elections, in a country often cited as a beacon of thriving capitalism. The day before the election, the government closed down the major opposition news channel; added to that, Turkey has more journalists in jail than any other country in the world, and even an 11 year old child was threatened with legal action by the government after criticising Erdogan on facebook. Meanwhile, the June attacks on rival Kurdish party HQ have gone completely unpunished, the government reentered combat with the PKK days before the election, despite the latter stating their desire for peace until the elections were concluded. Police violence, particularly in Kurdish areas, on election day was rife, and Erdogan now hopes to push through a law to transfer power away from parliament and towards himself.

Or perhaps a better parallel to Venezuela would be Congo, a resource rich nation that has embraced Capitalism, and is now one of the fastest growing economies on the planet...even while over half of its people don't have access to clean drinking water.

Of course, it's the Venezuelan oppositions fault that democracy and independent public bodies are being suppressed.

And I ask you this, if a coup was launched against a right wing government that was suppressing democracy, would you support it or bemoan the fact that the opposition 'were not taking democracy seriously'?

 


"The real question is, at the end of the day, do we want to run our country? Are we proud of who we are? Are we happy to be just a star on somebody else's flag, or do we want to be an independent nation? - Nigel Farage

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 04 Nov 15 9.10am Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 04 Nov 2015 9.02am

Quote serial thriller at 04 Nov 2015 8.45am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 5.24pm

Quote serial thriller at 03 Nov 2015 5.04pm

My reading of the situation in Venezuela is this. Since the fall of the Berlin wall and the expansion of global capitalism in to virtually every corner of the globe, state Socialism has faced a two-fold problem in terms of maintaining itself. Either it attempts to fight against the tide, building nationalist movements like you saw in France in the 80s or Corbyn at the moment, which push for socialist policies within a framework of global capitalism. This almost inevitably leads to compromise and disappointment, especially if the grassroots movement that propel them fade away.

The other option is the Venezuelan model of becoming a pretty insular society, relying on funding via a high level export. You see it in Scandanavia to an extent as well. Problem is, once that export evaporates or demand goes down, you're pretty f*cked. I actually think in the past few decades Venezuela has done some brilliant things for its people, and been relatively democratic and open in the process. But ultimately without a concerted global move away from capitalism, it is hard to see a way of making it stick.

The problem is that the politics and the system doesn't work. Everyone knows that this 'mumbo jumbo' is simply an expensive social engineering project which is doomed to failure from the start.

Also, I guess its which country you compare the country with when calling it 'relatively democratic'. Are you using the DPRK as the comparison model?

[Link]


Your first paragraph is just empty nonsense Matt.

The link you posted, however, is fairly interesting. From what I've read, the political situation in Venezuela is certainly at breaking point, but what that article completely fails to identify is the other side of the story.

The other side of the story is that democracy is incredibly difficult to maintain in Venezuela because the opposition seem to have such a total disregard for it. The 2014 US Federal reserve gave million to opposition groups in Venezuela, while coups are commonplace. Even after Maduro was narrowly elected in 2013, there was an attempted coup, despite independent bodies suggesting it was a fair and transparent election. This isn't to suggest that Venezuela is some model for democratic socialism, but the lack of balance in that piece is questionable.

And when I talk about relatively, I'll give you a couple of examples. Look at the recent Turkish elections, in a country often cited as a beacon of thriving capitalism. The day before the election, the government closed down the major opposition news channel; added to that, Turkey has more journalists in jail than any other country in the world, and even an 11 year old child was threatened with legal action by the government after criticising Erdogan on facebook. Meanwhile, the June attacks on rival Kurdish party HQ have gone completely unpunished, the government reentered combat with the PKK days before the election, despite the latter stating their desire for peace until the elections were concluded. Police violence, particularly in Kurdish areas, on election day was rife, and Erdogan now hopes to push through a law to transfer power away from parliament and towards himself.

Or perhaps a better parallel to Venezuela would be Congo, a resource rich nation that has embraced Capitalism, and is now one of the fastest growing economies on the planet...even while over half of its people don't have access to clean drinking water.

Of course, it's the Venezuelan oppositions fault that democracy and independent public bodies are being suppressed.

And I ask you this, if a coup was launched against a right wing government that was suppressing democracy, would you support it or bemoan the fact that the opposition 'were not taking democracy seriously'?


I'm not suggesting there aren't issues with accountability in Venezuela, I'm just questioning the balance of that article on a subject which is incredibly difficult to get any kind of neutrality.

I'd never support a coup, it's a full proletarian revolution or nothing

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Hard Brexit 04 Nov 15 9.35am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 04 Nov 2015 9.10am

Quote matt_himself at 04 Nov 2015 9.02am

Quote serial thriller at 04 Nov 2015 8.45am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 5.24pm

Quote serial thriller at 03 Nov 2015 5.04pm

My reading of the situation in Venezuela is this. Since the fall of the Berlin wall and the expansion of global capitalism in to virtually every corner of the globe, state Socialism has faced a two-fold problem in terms of maintaining itself. Either it attempts to fight against the tide, building nationalist movements like you saw in France in the 80s or Corbyn at the moment, which push for socialist policies within a framework of global capitalism. This almost inevitably leads to compromise and disappointment, especially if the grassroots movement that propel them fade away.

The other option is the Venezuelan model of becoming a pretty insular society, relying on funding via a high level export. You see it in Scandanavia to an extent as well. Problem is, once that export evaporates or demand goes down, you're pretty f*cked. I actually think in the past few decades Venezuela has done some brilliant things for its people, and been relatively democratic and open in the process. But ultimately without a concerted global move away from capitalism, it is hard to see a way of making it stick.

The problem is that the politics and the system doesn't work. Everyone knows that this 'mumbo jumbo' is simply an expensive social engineering project which is doomed to failure from the start.

Also, I guess its which country you compare the country with when calling it 'relatively democratic'. Are you using the DPRK as the comparison model?

[Link]


Your first paragraph is just empty nonsense Matt.

The link you posted, however, is fairly interesting. From what I've read, the political situation in Venezuela is certainly at breaking point, but what that article completely fails to identify is the other side of the story.

The other side of the story is that democracy is incredibly difficult to maintain in Venezuela because the opposition seem to have such a total disregard for it. The 2014 US Federal reserve gave million to opposition groups in Venezuela, while coups are commonplace. Even after Maduro was narrowly elected in 2013, there was an attempted coup, despite independent bodies suggesting it was a fair and transparent election. This isn't to suggest that Venezuela is some model for democratic socialism, but the lack of balance in that piece is questionable.

And when I talk about relatively, I'll give you a couple of examples. Look at the recent Turkish elections, in a country often cited as a beacon of thriving capitalism. The day before the election, the government closed down the major opposition news channel; added to that, Turkey has more journalists in jail than any other country in the world, and even an 11 year old child was threatened with legal action by the government after criticising Erdogan on facebook. Meanwhile, the June attacks on rival Kurdish party HQ have gone completely unpunished, the government reentered combat with the PKK days before the election, despite the latter stating their desire for peace until the elections were concluded. Police violence, particularly in Kurdish areas, on election day was rife, and Erdogan now hopes to push through a law to transfer power away from parliament and towards himself.

Or perhaps a better parallel to Venezuela would be Congo, a resource rich nation that has embraced Capitalism, and is now one of the fastest growing economies on the planet...even while over half of its people don't have access to clean drinking water.

Of course, it's the Venezuelan oppositions fault that democracy and independent public bodies are being suppressed.

And I ask you this, if a coup was launched against a right wing government that was suppressing democracy, would you support it or bemoan the fact that the opposition 'were not taking democracy seriously'?


I'm not suggesting there aren't issues with accountability in Venezuela, I'm just questioning the balance of that article on a subject which is incredibly difficult to get any kind of neutrality.

I'd never support a coup, it's a full proletarian revolution or nothing


And there's me thinking you are a dyed in the wool Trotskyite interventalist, honed on the classic Militant Tendency model, who would view proletarian revolution as an unattainable goal in today's World due to the fuzzy distinctions, and multitude of layers of, class.

 


"The real question is, at the end of the day, do we want to run our country? Are we proud of who we are? Are we happy to be just a star on somebody else's flag, or do we want to be an independent nation? - Nigel Farage

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 04 Nov 15 10.54am

Quote matt_himself at 04 Nov 2015 8.26am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 04 Nov 2015 8.14am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 10.31pm

Quote leifandersonshair at 03 Nov 2015 7.08pm

The politics and the system work- but, as Serial notes, state socialism is unsustainable in the current global climate of unfettered capitalism. Just as, in a world of successful socialist states, the single capitalist country would inevitably fail.

Calling socialism 'mumbo jumbo' is lazy and no real argument. Capitalism is a bunch of old hogwash. See? I can do it too!


Please provide an example of where the politics and system work in a socialist state, where living standards are raised consistently and where democracy thrives.

Venezuela would probably fit that bill. Do you include Sweden?


Edited by jamiemartin721 (04 Nov 2015 8.14am)

Please provide evidence that Venezuela is democratic. From everything I have read, the government there is doing a lot of things to restrict freedom that if they happened elsewhere, you and your sort would be up in arms over.

Sweden isn't socialist. You can delude yourself that the 'Nordic model' is socialism but it clearly isn't. It is a free market economy, highly taxed and with a social safety net. It is not socialist by definition.

Indeed, but its still democratic. In the same way we're democratic, whilst fitting into a system that favours the dominant party. We have a system where 15% of the electorate (roughly) vote for the Greens and UKIP (they got a seat each) - Hardly a fair model when you consider the votes the Liberal Democrats received was at least half that, and they got 8 seats.

Hardly a fair system either.

Sweden
Its definitely not a free market model either though, Sweden, there are a lot of social restrictions placed on companies to require them to fulfil commitments to the state and society, but it fulfils what I feel the a socialist model should represent. Socialism should provides a critique of capitalism, and in Sweden, and several other European countries, this influence of socialism has resulted in a curtailing of the failures and dangers of capitalist ideology as seen in far more free market models.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 04 Nov 15 10.55am

Quote serial thriller at 04 Nov 2015 9.10am

Quote matt_himself at 04 Nov 2015 9.02am

Quote serial thriller at 04 Nov 2015 8.45am

Quote matt_himself at 03 Nov 2015 5.24pm

Quote serial thriller at 03 Nov 2015 5.04pm

My reading of the situation in Venezuela is this. Since the fall of the Berlin wall and the expansion of global capitalism in to virtually every corner of the globe, state Socialism has faced a two-fold problem in terms of maintaining itself. Either it attempts to fight against the tide, building nationalist movements like you saw in France in the 80s or Corbyn at the moment, which push for socialist policies within a framework of global capitalism. This almost inevitably leads to compromise and disappointment, especially if the grassroots movement that propel them fade away.

The other option is the Venezuelan model of becoming a pretty insular society, relying on funding via a high level export. You see it in Scandanavia to an extent as well. Problem is, once that export evaporates or demand goes down, you're pretty f*cked. I actually think in the past few decades Venezuela has done some brilliant things for its people, and been relatively democratic and open in the process. But ultimately without a concerted global move away from capitalism, it is hard to see a way of making it stick.

The problem is that the politics and the system doesn't work. Everyone knows that this 'mumbo jumbo' is simply an expensive social engineering project which is doomed to failure from the start.

Also, I guess its which country you compare the country with when calling it 'relatively democratic'. Are you using the DPRK as the comparison model?

[Link]


Your first paragraph is just empty nonsense Matt.

The link you posted, however, is fairly interesting. From what I've read, the political situation in Venezuela is certainly at breaking point, but what that article completely fails to identify is the other side of the story.

The other side of the story is that democracy is incredibly difficult to maintain in Venezuela because the opposition seem to have such a total disregard for it. The 2014 US Federal reserve gave million to opposition groups in Venezuela, while coups are commonplace. Even after Maduro was narrowly elected in 2013, there was an attempted coup, despite independent bodies suggesting it was a fair and transparent election. This isn't to suggest that Venezuela is some model for democratic socialism, but the lack of balance in that piece is questionable.

And when I talk about relatively, I'll give you a couple of examples. Look at the recent Turkish elections, in a country often cited as a beacon of thriving capitalism. The day before the election, the government closed down the major opposition news channel; added to that, Turkey has more journalists in jail than any other country in the world, and even an 11 year old child was threatened with legal action by the government after criticising Erdogan on facebook. Meanwhile, the June attacks on rival Kurdish party HQ have gone completely unpunished, the government reentered combat with the PKK days before the election, despite the latter stating their desire for peace until the elections were concluded. Police violence, particularly in Kurdish areas, on election day was rife, and Erdogan now hopes to push through a law to transfer power away from parliament and towards himself.

Or perhaps a better parallel to Venezuela would be Congo, a resource rich nation that has embraced Capitalism, and is now one of the fastest growing economies on the planet...even while over half of its people don't have access to clean drinking water.

Of course, it's the Venezuelan oppositions fault that democracy and independent public bodies are being suppressed.

And I ask you this, if a coup was launched against a right wing government that was suppressing democracy, would you support it or bemoan the fact that the opposition 'were not taking democracy seriously'?


I'm not suggesting there aren't issues with accountability in Venezuela, I'm just questioning the balance of that article on a subject which is incredibly difficult to get any kind of neutrality.

I'd never support a coup, it's a full proletarian revolution or nothing


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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