There are plenty of passages in the Quran that condone violence against believers and non believer's alike. All this talk of Islam being a religion of peace is of course bollocks & for people to insist otherwise are trying to cover some pretty sizeable cracks, it also doesnt help anyone.

What is wrong with calling a spade a spade? Islam is a violent & aggressive religion, the text is there in the book.

There isnt some kind of Quran 2 for ISIS, Boko Haram etc they read the same Quran as everyone else, they read the damn thing day & night over & over again & I would absolutely guarantee they know the text alot better than anyone claiming you aint no muslim bruv.

Hundreds of thousands if not millions of muslims (many being highly educated doctors, engineers, mechanics etc) support the creation of the caliphate, that makes them just as complicit as those who commit the murders.

I do actually have some sympathy for Trump, there was no outrage when Iranians were banned in the US & its not really any different to Eastern euro countries saying they will only take Christian refugees.

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Problem is it depends what you mean by Islam. Realistically, your talking about a specific subset of Sunni Islam and some Shia Islam. Effectively the problem is geo-political and largely fundermentalist related.

I think a certain degree of pragmatism is required, same and even some degree of profiling could be justified, but it would be erroneous to assume that all Islam is the same, or even remotely similar (there is a reason why a lot of UK Muslims moved to the UK, for many it was to avoid fundamentalist and oppressive regimes).

For the most part, successful counter-terrorism is driven by intelligence, rather than security measures. 'Upping Security' at airports rarely prevents bombings, infiltration and survelliance of suspects does a far better job - and that would require not trying to alienate a) the Muslim community in the UK and more importantly intelligence obtained abroad in Muslim countries.

Its important as well to remember that the mainstay of those fighting against groups like IS, are also Muslims (in Syria and Iraq), along with those being killed.

The problem is we're seeing a problem by the stereotype of die hard fanatics hell bent on the destruction of the west. They aren't, not really, the focus of Al-Qaeda was always Saudi Arabia, the US became a target because of its support of Saudi Arabia and political ties, not because they 'hate our freedom'.

The question of IS is a problem, but responses need to be proportional to the threat, and not actually retard our capacity to reduce the threat or more dangerously feed into fueling that threat.

Internment and Bloody Sunday did more for the Provisional IRA than the Provo's could ever have hoped for, because it alienated the Catholic community and republicans, and that anger increasingly found an outlet only available through the Provosional IRA.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Its the problem of religion and fundamentalism especially, because it promotes the rejection of context, a phase becomes truth and the only truth, by its existence, and the extrapolation of that truth is placed in the authority of individuals, who's agendas are not spiritual.

Its like Christian Fundamentalists attacking abortion clinics, there isn't really any way you could read the bible and think, you know what, that's would Jesus wants. They just pick and emphasis what fits their agenda, and ignore the rest.

Groups like IS and Boko Harem are just the extreme manifestation of this kind of political machination of Religion (similar to that of Iran).

Like anything, religion can be a tool for peace or violence, dependent on the person 'reading the book'. The reality of such groups is that their intentions aren't really driven by religion or spirituality, but are about power, status and control.

The IS Caliphate is not about Islam, its about creating a 'country over which IS has dominance' same ultimately as that of the Iranian Revolution - Neither fosters the theological spiritual development of individual muslims, but the control of those people for the benefit of a few.

Which certainly isn't what Mohammed was preaching.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Number of Americans killed by Islamist terrorists since 2001: 3,380

Number of Americans killed by legal guns since 2001: 406,496

Source: [Link]

So why is Chump's focus on banning Muslims and not banning legally held guns I wonder, bearing in mind which is the greater threat to American lives?

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The ridiculous 'uproar' from certain quarters tells me that this is a PC issue to many. Far too bloody many imo.
As for the rest, agreed.

Time to move forward together.

You give the Quran far too much credibility, the Quran IS the final word from God, that in itself is extremely threatening, we haven't even opened the book yet & this particular work of fiction is throwing context out the window.

I happen to disagree with your comments about the caliphate not being about Islam, it's at the very core of Islam & it's why thousands flood to Syria/Iraq to fight & why millions around the world cheer it on.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (11 Dec 2015 12.17am)

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