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The Brexit Thread

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Aug 19 6.01pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As no referendum has any legal force they are not even advisory. It's was the commitment to respect it and the triggering of Article 50 by Parliament which has the real implications.

What Parliament enacts it can also undo. Parliament, and not governments, are sovereign in the UK. If Parliament is of a mind that the path being trodden is not in the country's interests then they have not just the right, but the duty, to act.

Parliament cannot, and I am sure will not, allow any government of whatever stripe, to use procedure to get it's own way against the collective will of the Parliament.

So if the opposition fail to vote down the government or any other equivalent vote you would be okay with that right? Because that is the will of Parliament?

 


One more point

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Aug 19 6.07pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Blowing up the cabinet at the Grand Hotel in 1985 was an outrage.

Now it would get a round of applause.

No more IRA bombing thanks, the Caterham one still haunts me.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 29 Aug 19 6.10pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I love your post as I can imagine your face going redder and redder with righteous indignation at the fact that the Prime Minister has got one over on all those in Parliament that thought they could thwart the will of the people that put them there.

Take it easy before you explode

Dominic Cummings and his team played a large role in winning the original Brexit vote and now he's outsmarted and 'dirty tricked' them on actually leaving.

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 29 Aug 19 8.45pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Dominic Cummings and his team played a large role in winning the original Brexit vote and now he's outsmarted and 'dirty tricked' them on actually leaving.

A way to go yet and still I suspect a few more twists before we get one less star on that s***ty flag.

I confess the schadenfreude of the last day or so has been delicious but I still have my doubts about Johnson and his true commitment to enacting a 'clean' Brexit along with a little bit of a notion of hypocrisy.

If the Remain side had pulled a similar stunt to enact a revocation of A50 or a second referendum I would be all blood and thunder myself and ultimately, the UK has to emerge from the other side of this all at some stage.

And the divisions are now so entrenched that I do wonder what the future holds. Scary times, no matter how fun the last 36 hours have been.

Because what is clear is that a significant amount of people in the UK cannot accept that 52 is a higher % than 48 in a vote. I had just accepted as a given that our system of democracy was rock solid but it is clear that for a lot of people, that is no longer a valid concept. And supposedly the 'brighter' ones in our society as well.

When did they become such utter morons? Why would anybody who voted Remain in 2016 not accept that they lost? Once we leave, then yes, campaign for us to rejoin. A perfectly legitimate political aspiration. But to try and deliberately scupper the result from June 2016 from being implemented? That is beyond the pale. Democracy clearly is a lot more fragile than I had assumed.

Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2019 8.49pm)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Aug 19 9.33pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

A way to go yet and still I suspect a few more twists before we get one less star on that s***ty flag.

I confess the schadenfreude of the last day or so has been delicious but I still have my doubts about Johnson and his true commitment to enacting a 'clean' Brexit along with a little bit of a notion of hypocrisy.

If the Remain side had pulled a similar stunt to enact a revocation of A50 or a second referendum I would be all blood and thunder myself and ultimately, the UK has to emerge from the other side of this all at some stage.

And the divisions are now so entrenched that I do wonder what the future holds. Scary times, no matter how fun the last 36 hours have been.

Because what is clear is that a significant amount of people in the UK cannot accept that 52 is a higher % than 48 in a vote. I had just accepted as a given that our system of democracy was rock solid but it is clear that for a lot of people, that is no longer a valid concept. And supposedly the 'brighter' ones in our society as well.

When did they become such utter morons? Why would anybody who voted Remain in 2016 not accept that they lost? Once we leave, then yes, campaign for us to rejoin. A perfectly legitimate political aspiration. But to try and deliberately scupper the result from June 2016 from being implemented? That is beyond the pale. Democracy clearly is a lot more fragile than I had assumed.


Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2019 8.49pm)

This concerns me as well. A south African friend said his country is a democracy I replied we won't know that until the ANC lose an election and peacefully handover power to the wining party.

That has been the hallmark of this country that some of us gripe about the result as we lost but accept that the other side have the right to power.

I have been shocked by the blatant disregard for democracy especially by the politicians who should know better. The day after the Cameron 2015 election there was a small group of protestors outside Downing street with posters that said the Tories are out of touch with the people. I though what a bunch of idiots we had an election less that 24 hours ago how can the winning party be out of touch as this stage of the cycle.

I fear the genie has been let out of the bottle and rather like the US any future election will now be disputed and challenged by supporters of the losing side.

A sad day for democracy and I fear the wounds will not heal quickly if at all.

 


One more point

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 29 Aug 19 9.59pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

This concerns me as well. A south African friend said his country is a democracy I replied we won't know that until the ANC lose an election and peacefully handover power to the wining party.

That has been the hallmark of this country that some of us gripe about the result as we lost but accept that the other side have the right to power.

I have been shocked by the blatant disregard for democracy especially by the politicians who should know better. The day after the Cameron 2015 election there was a small group of protestors outside Downing street with posters that said the Tories are out of touch with the people. I though what a bunch of idiots we had an election less that 24 hours ago how can the winning party be out of touch as this stage of the cycle.

I fear the genie has been let out of the bottle and rather like the US any future election will now be disputed and challenged by supporters of the losing side.

A sad day for democracy and I fear the wounds will not heal quickly if at all.

Well put. If leave had loss do you seriously think there would be protests in the streets 3 years down the line? No of course not most of us Leavers aare pragmatic we would of rolled up our sleeves & gotten on with our lives.
The remainers are nothing but sour losers what an absolute shower of s***e they are from their calling everyone a racist,gammon etc to faux superriority that their view is correct (a few of the scumbags on here who I won't mention spring to mind) f*** em they lost Lets get out & move on !!

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 29 Aug 19 10.07pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Jimenez

Well put. If leave had loss do you seriously think there would be protests in the streets 3 years down the line? No of course not most of us Leavers aare pragmatic we would of rolled up our sleeves & gotten on with our lives.
The remainers are nothing but sour losers what an absolute shower of s***e they are from their calling everyone a racist,gammon etc to faux superriority that their view is correct (a few of the scumbags on here who I won't mention spring to mind) f*** em they lost Lets get out & move on !!

Had a bad day Jim?

 

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deleted user Flag 29 Aug 19 10.13pm

Something I find curious is that revoking article 50 is still only 3-1 in the betting odds. I just can't really see an eventuality where that happens now. I mean think of the outrage it would cause. Surely at this point the only realistic options are either a deal now that the EU sees that BJ means business, or no deal if that doesn't happen.

 

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View davidpercival's Profile davidpercival Flag Croydon 29 Aug 19 10.24pm Send a Private Message to davidpercival Add davidpercival as a friend

If you can't be bothered to read the whole of a reply to your post, it says it all about how much you are prepared to enter a serious discussion.
I will leave you to rant away while looking in the mirror.

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

I stopped reading past these sentences. You've just proved my point. Intentions and best endeavors mean sweet FA when it comes down to Acts of Parliament. The Act was passed, overwhelmingly so, with no amendments added.

Your argument of "What May said, what Farage promised, what Tusk offered" MEAN NOTHING.

The Commons knew full well that one of the end-states of this Act would be to leave without an Agreement. After all, they all read Article 50(3), didn't they? They knew that this act gave direct effect to all the clauses in Article 50, didn't they?

What would have been the alternative to activating the Article 50 notification that was compatible with the electorate's decision to leave the EU? I'm all ears.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 29 Aug 19 10.31pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

A way to go yet and still I suspect a few more twists before we get one less star on that s***ty flag.

I confess the schadenfreude of the last day or so has been delicious but I still have my doubts about Johnson and his true commitment to enacting a 'clean' Brexit along with a little bit of a notion of hypocrisy.

If the Remain side had pulled a similar stunt to enact a revocation of A50 or a second referendum I would be all blood and thunder myself and ultimately, the UK has to emerge from the other side of this all at some stage.

And the divisions are now so entrenched that I do wonder what the future holds. Scary times, no matter how fun the last 36 hours have been.

Because what is clear is that a significant amount of people in the UK cannot accept that 52 is a higher % than 48 in a vote. I had just accepted as a given that our system of democracy was rock solid but it is clear that for a lot of people, that is no longer a valid concept. And supposedly the 'brighter' ones in our society as well.

When did they become such utter morons? Why would anybody who voted Remain in 2016 not accept that they lost? Once we leave, then yes, campaign for us to rejoin. A perfectly legitimate political aspiration. But to try and deliberately scupper the result from June 2016 from being implemented? That is beyond the pale. Democracy clearly is a lot more fragile than I had assumed.


Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2019 8.49pm)

A very good post.

 

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deleted user Flag 29 Aug 19 10.41pm

Originally posted by Matov

A way to go yet and still I suspect a few more twists before we get one less star on that s***ty flag.

I confess the schadenfreude of the last day or so has been delicious but I still have my doubts about Johnson and his true commitment to enacting a 'clean' Brexit along with a little bit of a notion of hypocrisy.

If the Remain side had pulled a similar stunt to enact a revocation of A50 or a second referendum I would be all blood and thunder myself and ultimately, the UK has to emerge from the other side of this all at some stage.

And the divisions are now so entrenched that I do wonder what the future holds. Scary times, no matter how fun the last 36 hours have been.

Because what is clear is that a significant amount of people in the UK cannot accept that 52 is a higher % than 48 in a vote. I had just accepted as a given that our system of democracy was rock solid but it is clear that for a lot of people, that is no longer a valid concept. And supposedly the 'brighter' ones in our society as well.

When did they become such utter morons? Why would anybody who voted Remain in 2016 not accept that they lost? Once we leave, then yes, campaign for us to rejoin. A perfectly legitimate political aspiration. But to try and deliberately scupper the result from June 2016 from being implemented? That is beyond the pale. Democracy clearly is a lot more fragile than I had assumed.


Edited by Matov (29 Aug 2019 8.49pm)

It's a sign of these politically entrenched times that people just get 'stuck' with an outlook and conjure up all kinds of eventualities in their head of how they win the day. It benefits no-one though and is one of the forces behind that nauseating gridlock that we've experienced for the last three years.

The logical approach for people deadset on remaining, would be to respect the result and then play it by ear. If, as a suspect, the sky doesn't fall in, then fears will not be realised and support for being part of the EU will fall away dramatically. If on the other hand it's a disaster then there is nothing stopping people campaigning for rejoining in future. That's what gets me, it's a self correcting system. You leave and then you assess. The world isn't about to end. Life and nations experience twists and turns. Being so entrenched in an outlook favours no-one. Countries don't become what they are through a by numbers approach, it takes bold decisions from time to time. Some pan out, some don't, but unless you make them in the first place how are you ever going to know.

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 29 Aug 19 10.43pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Had a bad day Jim?

Nope all good just taking a beautiful Roast Chicken out of the oven (Chlorinated of course) !!

 


Pro USA & Israel

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