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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 12.45pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

For god sake Wisbech. First you say Parliament should decide, then you say there is a persuasive argument for a second referendum. Make up your mind.
We already had a referendum Wisbech and we voted to leave. Any second referendum cannot have a leave option, you sneaky old Remainer you.

I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision.

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

 


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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 12 Oct 19 1.09pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision.

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

The one in the Times quoting Rachel?

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 12 Oct 19 1.33pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Who would have thought, considering its troubled past, that Northern Ireland could well end up the most prosperous part of the UK, in contrast to down at heel brexit land.

You would think, if they retain the CU and single market access, that many enterprises will be making a bee-line for Belfast!

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Oct 19 1.55pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision.

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

That would be totally unacceptable and totally pointless.

One more time. For obvious reasons, a second vote on membership would have no credibility.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 2.22pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That would be totally unacceptable and totally pointless.

One more time. For obvious reasons, a second vote on membership would have no credibility.

Totally unacceptable? To whom? You obviously and many of the ultra Brexiteers but not to me or many other people. Whether it is, or not, is completely irrelevant though. We don't take those decisions. Our elected representatives do and if they do then we both have to live with them. That's the way it works.

For one more time. For obvious reasons. A second vote on membership would have no credibility in your opinion. As you aren't, so far as I am aware, an MP then your opinion on whether Parliament would be right or wrong to decide to hold a second vote, and whether the result would be credible, is not going to change anything. Your role, like mine, is to help decide who represents us.

As many seem to feel that holding a new confirmatory vote would enable us to begin to move on as a country then there is a strong argument for it's credibility.
There will always be some who decide to stay out of the tent. That's been the case over the European project since it was first raised when I was a kid.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 12 Oct 19 2.37pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

When does the bowls season restart?

Do you play indoors?

 


COYP

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 12 Oct 19 3.15pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


As many seem to feel that holding a new confirmatory vote would enable us to begin to move on as a country then there is a strong argument for it's credibility.

Who are the 'many'? Seriously. The only people pushing for the notion of a second referendum are those who lost the first.

Which is what makes it not only daft but potentially ruinous. It will be boycotted and whilst Remain will win, it will do so on the back of a much lower turn out along with less than 17.4 million votes.

How on earth does that allow us to move on? Or do you expect the Brexit party to just disband? For our future membership of the EU to be off the table when it comes to political discourse?

All it means is that the country becomes even more divided. Or do you think that us Leavers should accept the results of any second referendum? That the will of a majority is what matters above all else? That somehow it will us Leavers who are besmirching the very basis of how democracy is meant to operate?

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 12 Oct 19 3.24pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We have all had 40+ years of experience and of seeing the European project evolve from the EEC into the EU. Some like it, some don't.

By 2016 you are quite right. The EU was nothing like the EEC we originally entered. It was much more complex and all our regulatory systems and standards had been moulded to be part of it. A simple binary question obtained a small majority in favour of leaving this complex organisation but what has subsequently emerged is that the question could not be answered in that way. Complicated questions cannot be answered in simple ways.

In 2016 no-one really understood that. Most, but obviously not everyone, does now. The majority back in 2016 said they wanted to leave, but only by a tiny margin. Now is 2019 and not 2016 and what they now want is unknown until it is tested. All the indications are that enough have changed their minds to reverse the result of 2016. Time will tell.


So only a tiny majority is the important bit then.
What if it was 70 30 to leave.
Would you have a different opinion of whether leaving was correct and would you back it wholeheartedly.
Elections have put parties in charge by tiny majorities.
Do they not count as they are only tiny.
Watch labour if they get power change the voting rules to suit a minimum difference or you dont win.

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 12 Oct 19 3.47pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We have all had 40+ years of experience and of seeing the European project evolve from the EEC into the EU. Some like it, some don't.

By 2016 you are quite right. The EU was nothing like the EEC we originally entered. It was much more complex and all our regulatory systems and standards had been moulded to be part of it. A simple binary question obtained a small majority in favour of leaving this complex organisation but what has subsequently emerged is that the question could not be answered in that way. Complicated questions cannot be answered in simple ways.

In 2016 no-one really understood that. Most, but obviously not everyone, does now. The majority back in 2016 said they wanted to leave, but only by a tiny margin. Now is 2019 and not 2016 and what they now want is unknown until it is tested. All the indications are that enough have changed their minds to reverse the result of 2016. Time will tell.


Is there anyone one on this forum who voted leave not knowing what they voted for? And who on this forum is still happy with their leave vote knowing what they want?

Edited by dannyboy1978 (12 Oct 2019 3.48pm)

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 12 Oct 19 3.52pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision.

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

In other words the people didn't vote in the way parliment wanted so parliment want to make the last dicision. And remoaners wonder why we are angry

 

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View Belmont's Profile Belmont Flag 12 Oct 19 4.41pm Send a Private Message to Belmont Add Belmont as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Totally unacceptable? To whom? You obviously and many of the ultra Brexiteers but not to me or many other people. Whether it is, or not, is completely irrelevant though. We don't take those decisions. Our elected representatives do and if they do then we both have to live with them. That's the way it works.

For one more time. For obvious reasons. A second vote on membership would have no credibility in your opinion. As you aren't, so far as I am aware, an MP then your opinion on whether Parliament would be right or wrong to decide to hold a second vote, and whether the result would be credible, is not going to change anything. Your role, like mine, is to help decide who represents us.

As many seem to feel that holding a new confirmatory vote would enable us to begin to move on as a country then there is a strong argument for it's credibility.
There will always be some who decide to stay out of the tent. That's been the case over the European project since it was first raised when I was a kid.

I very rarely post as you may or may be aware but can I ask you a question, do you or do you not believe that parliament works on behalf of the people?

If so the referendum has already established what the people want so they should deliver it, that to me is the whole basis of democracy.

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 12 Oct 19 4.51pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Much better to do nothing than do something wrong. If it takes more time to get it right then we just need to accept that and sort it out. No-body is procrastinating in any way. They just won't accept an exit which they are sure will cause us avoidable harm.

You might want to reflect why Johnson has waited this long before getting to this point. He is leaving Parliament almost no choice other than to reject whatever deal comes back, even if the EU do manage to approve it.

Can't stand the guy myself but if you're seriously trying to deflect from the procrastination of the opposition instead accusing Johnson of the same you're more deluded than most others on here think you are.

They're not procrastinating to get it right, they're doing so because they fear change. Nothing more nothing less, that's why after all the machinations around prorogation and getting back into parliament they spent the next TWO days arguing....

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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