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The Brexit Thread

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 06 May 20 3.19pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by mezzer

Indeed it will WE, but it was on that basis that we each cast our vote on June 23rd 2016 and no one can criticise anyone else for the decision that they made. Because no one knows yet who was right.

I must say that the German Court going against the European Court of Justice and ruling against the ECB's QE package yesterday didn't exactly shout from the rooftops that any backsides had been kicked sufficiently though.

As Harold Macmillan was alleged to have said, when commenting on the unpredictability of politics and what caused them "Events, dear boy, events".

That is more true now than maybe ever before. Whatever we decided in 2016 and why we did can all now be cast aside. The world has already changed and unless we recognise that and are prepared to adjust our thinking accordingly we will make things worse than they already are going to be.

This is not a time for principled stands. About freedoms or previous decisions. This is a time to stand together and do what is most sensible in the situation we now face and not the one we didn't like in 2016, or even late 2019.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 06 May 20 3.24pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I question whether it is really wise to try to enter any kind of trade negotiations with the USA at the moment.

I watch with horror what is happening there. The divisions were wide and widening even before C19 and it's now getting much worse. Conspiracy theories have gripped a large section of society and the economy is about to tank with Trump's approach likely to drive it down rather than up. We are all going to feel the impact come what may, but let's not deliberately make things worse.

I sense the US is going to enter a deep and long lasting recession from which it may never emerge back to where it was. China was always going to be the dominant force in the 21st century and C19 looks as though it has accelerated that.

C19 has changed everything, everywhere. With so much uncertainty I think we would be wise just to pause things, extend the deadline with the EU, concentrate on beating the virus first and then take stock to see where our future lies.

Tying ourselves too closely to a sinking ship doesn't feel like a good idea to me. There are just too many possibilities in the USA at the moment.

1. Why do you think the Chinese released this god awful virus, seems like their plan has worked doesnt it?
2. tying ourselves to the sinking ship (the US) is wrong (because you hate Trump) yet tying ourselves to the sinking ship that is the EU is ok (because you worship the EU)
3. we had a vote on EU membership, LEAVE came out on top, were leaving whether you like it or not, get over it..

PS we have paused on Brexit for over 3 years....time to do it now

Edited by the silurian (06 May 2020 3.28pm)

 

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View cpfc_chap's Profile cpfc_chap Flag koh samui 06 May 20 4.33pm Send a Private Message to cpfc_chap Add cpfc_chap as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian

1. Why do you think the Chinese released this god awful virus, seems like their plan has worked doesnt it?
2. tying ourselves to the sinking ship (the US) is wrong (because you hate Trump) yet tying ourselves to the sinking ship that is the EU is ok (because you worship the EU)
3. we had a vote on EU membership, LEAVE came out on top, were leaving whether you like it or not, get over it..

PS we have paused on Brexit for over 3 years....time to do it now

Edited by the silurian (06 May 2020 3.28pm)

The U.S will out live the EU. I give the EU 10 more years at most. They've done f all to help Spain and Italy over there outbreak of covid... Germany did take a few token patients....

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 06 May 20 6.03pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As Harold Macmillan was alleged to have said, when commenting on the unpredictability of politics and what caused them "Events, dear boy, events".

That is more true now than maybe ever before. Whatever we decided in 2016 and why we did can all now be cast aside. The world has already changed and unless we recognise that and are prepared to adjust our thinking accordingly we will make things worse than they already are going to be.

This is not a time for principled stands. About freedoms or previous decisions. This is a time to stand together and do what is most sensible in the situation we now face and not the one we didn't like in 2016, or even late 2019.

We are standing together. With the USA. I do wonder if obama were in charge that your stance on this would be different and why.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 06 May 20 6.10pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As Harold Macmillan was alleged to have said, when commenting on the unpredictability of politics and what caused them "Events, dear boy, events".

That is more true now than maybe ever before. Whatever we decided in 2016 and why we did can all now be cast aside. The world has already changed and unless we recognise that and are prepared to adjust our thinking accordingly we will make things worse than they already are going to be.

This is not a time for principled stands. About freedoms or previous decisions. This is a time to stand together and do what is most sensible in the situation we now face and not the one we didn't like in 2016, or even late 2019.

I've read a fair amount of pomposity in my time as a member of HOL, but this trumps the lot!

In any case, it wouldn't surprise me if the EU is "cast aside" in the not-too-distant future as nationalism becomes the fashion across mainland Europe.

Note: I didn't vote 'Leave'.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 06 May 20 6.18pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by YT

I've read a fair amount of pomposity in my time as a member of HOL, but this trumps the lot!



'tis a thing of rare beauty. A gem. Applaud the effort.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 06 May 20 9.14pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by YT

I've read a fair amount of pomposity in my time as a member of HOL, but this trumps the lot!

In any case, it wouldn't surprise me if the EU is "cast aside" in the not-too-distant future as nationalism becomes the fashion across mainland Europe.

Note: I didn't vote 'Leave'.

I am very surprised that you think I am being pompous and suspect that can only be because you are misunderstanding what I said. Maybe I wasn't clear enough so let me try to explain. When I said we can "cast aside" what we decided in 2016 this was not intended as any kind of comment on the vote itself, It was merely a reflection of the new reality.

Whatever our personal views were during the past 3 years we have left the EU. It's no longer a debate. We are now into the negotiation of the future trading relationship phase. However, the C19 crisis impacts everyone and everything, ourselves and the EU included. It's a mega big event and it changes things.

I have no more idea than anyone else, the EU included, whether the EU will survive this crisis and if it does what sort of shape it will be in. I do though look at the path that the USA under Trump are taking and get concerned that this is not the right time to be getting closer to them. Of course others will disagree and we all could be wrong.

I just don't know what's going to be best for us. There seem too many uncertainties at present to reach any kind of informed decision. Hence my suggestion that we just pause things for a while so we can make decisions when things become clearer. Maybe in 9 months time we will be dealing with a new US administration who themselves will see things differently. Despite claims to the contrary a detailed trade agreement is really unlikely to be concluded before then.

I really wasn't being controversial. I was just trying to be practical.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 06 May 20 9.18pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am very surprised that you think I am being pompous and suspect that can only be because you are misunderstanding what I said. Maybe I wasn't clear enough so let me try to explain. When I said we can "cast aside" what we decided in 2016 this was not intended as any kind of comment on the vote itself, It was merely a reflection of the new reality.

Whatever our personal views were during the past 3 years we have left the EU. It's no longer a debate. We are now into the negotiation of the future trading relationship phase. However, the C19 crisis impacts everyone and everything, ourselves and the EU included. It's a mega big event and it changes things.

I have no more idea than anyone else, the EU included, whether the EU will survive this crisis and if it does what sort of shape it will be in. I do though look at the path that the USA under Trump are taking and get concerned that this is not the right time to be getting closer to them. Of course others will disagree and we all could be wrong.

I just don't know what's going to be best for us. There seem too many uncertainties at present to reach any kind of informed decision. Hence my suggestion that we just pause things for a while so we can make decisions when things become clearer. Maybe in 9 months time we will be dealing with a new US administration who themselves will see things differently. Despite claims to the contrary a detailed trade agreement is really unlikely to be concluded before then.

I really wasn't being controversial. I was just trying to be practical.

but still making out you are 'better', 'smarter" or somehow better informed than everyone else......or just pompous!

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 06 May 20 9.20pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

We are standing together. With the USA. I do wonder if obama were in charge that your stance on this would be different and why.

No it wouldn't be any different because no-one yet knows how things will be in a few months, let alone a few years. Best to hold the line and review when things are clearer.

That said I suspect under Obama the USA would be taking a different line to Trump. More cautious and more science led on the C19 crisis and less "enthusiastic" on a trade deal than Trump, who doesn't like the EU and sees us as an opportunity to sell things that they now supply.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 06 May 20 9.39pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian

1. Why do you think the Chinese released this god awful virus, seems like their plan has worked doesnt it?
2. tying ourselves to the sinking ship (the US) is wrong (because you hate Trump) yet tying ourselves to the sinking ship that is the EU is ok (because you worship the EU)
3. we had a vote on EU membership, LEAVE came out on top, were leaving whether you like it or not, get over it..

PS we have paused on Brexit for over 3 years....time to do it now

Edited by the silurian (06 May 2020 3.28pm)

Not for the first time you show yourself as a believer in conspiracy theories. I am not. I am a believer in cold hard truth.

I don't hate Trump. I pity him. I hate his politics and the direction he has taken the USA.

Nor do I love the EU. During the last 3 years I would have preferred we remained a member but we didn't. That's no longer a question. It's whether in today's world we really ought to be trying to stay close to them, or not that is the question. I have no answer to that so no opinion on it.

You talk as though nothing has changed in the last 3 months.

I have news for you! Everything has changed. So you need to get over that!

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 07 May 20 7.41am Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not for the first time you show yourself as a believer in conspiracy theories. I am not. I am a believer in cold hard truth.

I don't hate Trump. I pity him. I hate his politics and the direction he has taken the USA.

Nor do I love the EU. During the last 3 years I would have preferred we remained a member but we didn't. That's no longer a question. It's whether in today's world we really ought to be trying to stay close to them, or not that is the question. I have no answer to that so no opinion on it.

You talk as though nothing has changed in the last 3 months.

I have news for you! Everything has changed. So you need to get over that!

Care to show me where i have believed in conspiracy theories before? Didnt think so...I talk as though nothing has changed? Really? My business relies on people coming from the UK, thats all stopped, We have had NO INCOME for 3 months, so dont tell me I think nothing has changed, maybe Ill just return to UK and become another burden on the state....seems to work for plenty of others!
I dont believe in conspiracy at all, I just believe that the government and previous governments and all MPs have lied to us, and are still lieing over this virus (and many other things).
They lie every day....100000 tests a day? Didnt happen! Everything is a lie to cover up their inadequacies
You are a great advocate of the EU, what have they done for poorer countries in this testing time? Sweet FA thats what, they are going down, hopefully sooner rather than later...and before you start, I live in the EU and it will affect me and my family big time if it collapses which is looking increasingly likely!
In the mean time, you carry on living in your cossetted Truro bubble and looking down on everyone else!!

Edited by the silurian (07 May 2020 7.44am)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 07 May 20 7.41am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

I'm not sure I understand this tying ourselves to a sinking ship (either US or EU) nor do is believe it an either or trade deal with one or the other.

We will be doing multiple trade deals across the world it would be great to have deals with both the US and the EU. A trade deal doesn't mean we are forced to buy their goods (that's a bad deal) it just means both sides have access to the others markets with less tax and paperwork.

If we do a deal with the EU and politically it starts to fall apart that is their problem. It should be seen as an opportunity if some countries breakaway from the EU they maybe more likely to offer favourable terms for instance I doubt Germany cares about olive growers.

The real issue here it the politically willingness to do a deal Trump seems keen the EU is dithering.

As for the comment everything has changed in the last three months, I agree I may post my thoughts on the Post Coronavirus thread, however any good businessmen will tell you change is an opportunity we should not dither if there is a good deal to be had by either bloc.

Edited by Badger11 (07 May 2020 7.45am)

 


One more point

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