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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 01 May 17 10.00pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin

So true, but this is a zero sum game for the likes of Juncker.

From his position he needs to make BRExit so penal that nobody else risks leaving. For example a Frexit even Greece would spell the end of a western union.... leaving small countries and eastern European states.

He needs it, I see the Italian Government , for once, does not have the money to bail out Alitalia, EU finances are at present " tricky".

For Junker, countries such as his, have historical had an over disproportional impact on the EU.

Then again in the 70s and 80s they realised the way the tide was turning while the average Brit still laughed at the EU votes, and myths about bananas.

Edited by pefwin (01 May 2017 9.28pm)

Different countries will want different deals or certainly have different priorities. Holland & Germany their exports, Poland their citizens. Southern states the billions we "owe" them. That's why in my opinion piecemeal agreements as we go along will not work.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View cardiff eagle's Profile cardiff eagle Flag 02 May 17 6.25am Send a Private Message to cardiff eagle Add cardiff eagle as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

I don't think may has a clue on Brexit?

[Link]

The EU are laughing at her. Time for someone else to take the reigns.


I also note that there aren't many responses about visa arrangements for ad hoc meetings across the channel.

in response to your ad hoc meeting point, if it were to be the same as the USA ESTA system, they last two years so unless you happened to have to renew on that very day i don't think renewing every two years would be that big of a deal! You can then continue to have whatever these random on the spot meetings in Paris are as much as you like whenever you like!

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 7.18am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

A different perspective on the EU migrants issue:

[Link]

There is a game of chess being played here.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 May 17 8.24am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

They've set out their stall. Been open about it too. Bills to be paid, rights for citizens guaranteed and no hard border between the two Irelands.

If we refuse to pay our full financial obligations then that is going to put everything else on hold and welching won't look good at all for potential new trading partners.

What do Hard Brexiteers think? Pay what's due or do a runner when they aren't looking?

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 02 May 17 8.28am

Originally posted by Kermit8

They've set out their stall. Been open about it too. Bills to be paid, rights for citizens guaranteed and no hard border between the two Irelands.

If we refuse to pay our full financial obligations then that is going to put everything else on hold and welching won't look good at all for potential new trading partners.

What do Hard Brexiteers think? Pay what's due or do a runner when they aren't looking?

Declare war on them.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 8.40am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

They've set out their stall. Been open about it too. Bills to be paid, rights for citizens guaranteed and no hard border between the two Irelands.

If we refuse to pay our full financial obligations then that is going to put everything else on hold and welching won't look good at all for potential new trading partners.

What do Hard Brexiteers think? Pay what's due or do a runner when they aren't looking?

Firstly, is there any evidence, from a credible independent source, of the liabilities and if yes, what the figures are that we 'owe'?

Secondly, Theresa May appears to want to do a deal on EU migrants rights quickly. From the reports, it appears that Juncker was the one whom said a deal couldn't be done quickly? Why not? The government was willing to do this and remove uncertainty for people living here whom are EU passport holders, surely the EU is not delaying removing their uncertainty for the 'greater good' of playing Brexit politics? He saintly EU would never do that.

Basically the way I read this is that the EU has, to the immediate detriment of EU citizens residing in the U.K., played politics and is attempting to influence the general election. If Trump had done something like this, he left would be all over this as evidence of a 'dilution of democracy'. Planting stories in the press is oldest trick in the book and he Bremoaners are lapping it up. Good on Theresa for not relaliating in the manner Juncker and co clearly wanted.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 12.58pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Nick Clegg, that shining example of principle, has said that Brexit will cost us '£500' each, a different estimate from Osbourne's £3,500 each in the referendum:

[Link]

I would happily stump up a monkey to get out of the Socialist Federation of Greater Germany.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 02 May 17 1.16pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Declare war on them.

You heard it here first.
Sorry it's long. Nicked from social media.

Theresa May, The EU and the Main Stream Media.
The next move is WAR!

In an attempt to add some street cred to this I am a Psychologist (34 years) and a Psychotherapist (15 years) with a particular interest in the field of propaganda. It is all around us and it fascinates me.

Anyway, that aside, there is a huge potential as yet untapped by the Tories and the MSM that is only now having its foundations very carefully laid. That is the scenario of the ‘War Hero’. The air around us is only just beginning to crackle and smoulder with stories of an impending and unavoidable conflict. There is, right now, much sabre rattling accompanied by alarm bells currently sounding quite softly in the background. Soon it will get MUCH louder. Indeed it is being lined up to become a cacophony of background noise that will drown out truth and reason to become what is now called an ‘alternative truth’. In too many people it will be willingly accepted, swallowed and oft regurgitated as being the 5th Gospel. For them it will BECOME the ‘new’ truth.

When it does, and as a result of being planted in ground well fertilised with bulls***, that ‘new’ truth will give us but one given option and that is for us do our ‘king and country’ duty and rally behind a shining and courageous leader in the midst of a cruel and unwarranted war being waged against us by that ever present and eternal adversary, ‘Johnny Foreigner’ (whomever that has been in the past – and there have been many) or, if not, to be labelled ‘traitor’ or ‘heretic’ or even ‘saboteur’. (Where have I heard that before I wonder?)

The MSM stories will be all about a terrible and ugly enemy (the evil and rapacious EU this time) trying to wage a bloodthirsty war on this our ‘Great’ Britain. There to put us to the fiscal sword we stand firm upon our ‘Britishness’. Outnumbered and alone maybe but we shall overcome if only we pull together. It is, after all, the good old British way. A small but brave island race standing unaided shoulder to shoulder under one flag and with one single purpose. All alone we will be facing a sea of hatred simply for trying to stand up in defence of good old British values. It will be against all the odds and in circumstances of complete innocence on our part. We either make our stand or give in to the will of a despicable enemy hell bent on the destruction of this green and pleasant land we all love so deeply. For the sake of our children and our children’s children we must ride out and stand fast to defeat the EU enemy at the very gates of hell. Images of the past ‘glories’ of this, the greatest nation on earth, will be conjured up out of altered memory to help puff out the national chest and give us hope of victory against yet another dreadful enemy.

We, as an heroic and ancient race will be left standing alone against an adversary of 27 nations combined. A grasping horde of the rabid and malevolent wandering abroad in their sickness, their growing immorality and their unjustifiable wickedness. Indeed, as in true wartime spirit, pulling together is the one and only way forward. “Come Brothers and Sisters – to glory beneath the flag and a magnificent “strong and stable” leader! In this way, and only this way, we WILL prevail.” This beginning to sound familiar yet? It will actually get that dramatic believe it or not. Remember the Falklands? And as silly as it all sounds to you and I, it certainly won’t sound silly to far too many.

At this point if not before Theresa May will be conveniently slotted in to the picture like a hand in a glove as our saviour and the only one who can see us through the inevitable approaching conflict. She will be offered up as the hero of the day. OUR hero. A Great British hero. The only “strong and stable” leader willing and able to save us from the enemy beating their fist at our national door.

There will be kindly but increasingly firm comparisons with Winston Churchill and Thatcher and especially the Falklands War that saved her political hide. Indeed Michael Howard has already started the ball rolling there some month or so ago when he talked of invading Gibraltar in a war against the Spanish. And anyone who thinks that was a chance remark or one that was not ‘planted’ then please think again.

There will probably be pictures of St. George with Theresa May’s photo-shopped face slaying the EU Dragon. Heart of oak and sword in hand she and she alone will march forward as our very own Joan of Arc (don’t worry the gullible won’t recognise the irony) into battle for us all. She will be our one and only chance to triumph. To triumph against an enemy that in reality exists only in MSM fairy stories and on a TV heavily biased against anything that may undermine the narrative of ‘Cometh the Hour – Cometh the Woman’. People love heroes.

The demonization of the EU began years ago and as soon as it has been whipped into a frenzy Saint Theresa will be presented as a gleaming goddess in shining armour ready to strike the enemy down with a single blow. “Conquer or die!” and “Hard Brexit – who cares?!” What a leader eh?

Me ‘over egging the pudding’? Well maybe – we shall see, but as the furore grows and the shrill voices of the MSM get louder with the language of propaganda amplifying in both print and voice I think you’ll see what I mean appearing before your very eyes very soon playmates.

It will come. It is tried and tested and what propagandists do. The trick is recognising it and countering it BEFORE it arrives. To take a boxing maxim “It’s always harder to punch your opponent when you’re on the back foot”.

Someone in the Labour Party (I hope) is already working on this? Foresight and counter-strategy is an art form and one that is essential in a propaganda war. Remember “A lie is half way around the world before the truth has got it’s trousers on.” (Winston Spencer Churchill.)

I just hope someone in the Labour Party is keeping their trousers on - and at all times.

TC.

GB.

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 02 May 17 1.35pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

What about people who go to Europe for a few hours to meet potential new clients. At the moment it's possible to arrange a meeting in Paris in the morning and be there for it in the afternoon. A visa system would slow things right down. We'd lose a certain amount of dynamism.


SKYPE

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 02 May 17 1.40pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

You heard it here first.
Sorry it's long. Nicked from social media.

Theresa May, The EU and the Main Stream Media.
The next move is WAR!

In an attempt to add some street cred to this I am a Psychologist (34 years) and a Psychotherapist (15 years) with a particular interest in the field of propaganda. It is all around us and it fascinates me.

Anyway, that aside, there is a huge potential as yet untapped by the Tories and the MSM that is only now having its foundations very carefully laid. That is the scenario of the ‘War Hero’. The air around us is only just beginning to crackle and smoulder with stories of an impending and unavoidable conflict. There is, right now, much sabre rattling accompanied by alarm bells currently sounding quite softly in the background. Soon it will get MUCH louder. Indeed it is being lined up to become a cacophony of background noise that will drown out truth and reason to become what is now called an ‘alternative truth’. In too many people it will be willingly accepted, swallowed and oft regurgitated as being the 5th Gospel. For them it will BECOME the ‘new’ truth.

When it does, and as a result of being planted in ground well fertilised with bulls***, that ‘new’ truth will give us but one given option and that is for us do our ‘king and country’ duty and rally behind a shining and courageous leader in the midst of a cruel and unwarranted war being waged against us by that ever present and eternal adversary, ‘Johnny Foreigner’ (whomever that has been in the past – and there have been many) or, if not, to be labelled ‘traitor’ or ‘heretic’ or even ‘saboteur’. (Where have I heard that before I wonder?)

The MSM stories will be all about a terrible and ugly enemy (the evil and rapacious EU this time) trying to wage a bloodthirsty war on this our ‘Great’ Britain. There to put us to the fiscal sword we stand firm upon our ‘Britishness’. Outnumbered and alone maybe but we shall overcome if only we pull together. It is, after all, the good old British way. A small but brave island race standing unaided shoulder to shoulder under one flag and with one single purpose. All alone we will be facing a sea of hatred simply for trying to stand up in defence of good old British values. It will be against all the odds and in circumstances of complete innocence on our part. We either make our stand or give in to the will of a despicable enemy hell bent on the destruction of this green and pleasant land we all love so deeply. For the sake of our children and our children’s children we must ride out and stand fast to defeat the EU enemy at the very gates of hell. Images of the past ‘glories’ of this, the greatest nation on earth, will be conjured up out of altered memory to help puff out the national chest and give us hope of victory against yet another dreadful enemy.

We, as an heroic and ancient race will be left standing alone against an adversary of 27 nations combined. A grasping horde of the rabid and malevolent wandering abroad in their sickness, their growing immorality and their unjustifiable wickedness. Indeed, as in true wartime spirit, pulling together is the one and only way forward. “Come Brothers and Sisters – to glory beneath the flag and a magnificent “strong and stable” leader! In this way, and only this way, we WILL prevail.” This beginning to sound familiar yet? It will actually get that dramatic believe it or not. Remember the Falklands? And as silly as it all sounds to you and I, it certainly won’t sound silly to far too many.

At this point if not before Theresa May will be conveniently slotted in to the picture like a hand in a glove as our saviour and the only one who can see us through the inevitable approaching conflict. She will be offered up as the hero of the day. OUR hero. A Great British hero. The only “strong and stable” leader willing and able to save us from the enemy beating their fist at our national door.

There will be kindly but increasingly firm comparisons with Winston Churchill and Thatcher and especially the Falklands War that saved her political hide. Indeed Michael Howard has already started the ball rolling there some month or so ago when he talked of invading Gibraltar in a war against the Spanish. And anyone who thinks that was a chance remark or one that was not ‘planted’ then please think again.

There will probably be pictures of St. George with Theresa May’s photo-shopped face slaying the EU Dragon. Heart of oak and sword in hand she and she alone will march forward as our very own Joan of Arc (don’t worry the gullible won’t recognise the irony) into battle for us all. She will be our one and only chance to triumph. To triumph against an enemy that in reality exists only in MSM fairy stories and on a TV heavily biased against anything that may undermine the narrative of ‘Cometh the Hour – Cometh the Woman’. People love heroes.

The demonization of the EU began years ago and as soon as it has been whipped into a frenzy Saint Theresa will be presented as a gleaming goddess in shining armour ready to strike the enemy down with a single blow. “Conquer or die!” and “Hard Brexit – who cares?!” What a leader eh?

Me ‘over egging the pudding’? Well maybe – we shall see, but as the furore grows and the shrill voices of the MSM get louder with the language of propaganda amplifying in both print and voice I think you’ll see what I mean appearing before your very eyes very soon playmates.

It will come. It is tried and tested and what propagandists do. The trick is recognising it and countering it BEFORE it arrives. To take a boxing maxim “It’s always harder to punch your opponent when you’re on the back foot”.

Someone in the Labour Party (I hope) is already working on this? Foresight and counter-strategy is an art form and one that is essential in a propaganda war. Remember “A lie is half way around the world before the truth has got it’s trousers on.” (Winston Spencer Churchill.)

I just hope someone in the Labour Party is keeping their trousers on - and at all times.

TC.

GB.


You do realise the irony of posting an article from someone admitting they have a "a particular interest in the field of propaganda. "...dont you?

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 02 May 17 2.01pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

Nick Clegg, that shining example of principle, has said that Brexit will cost us '£500' each, a different estimate from Osbourne's £3,500 each in the referendum:

[Link]

I would happily stump up a monkey to get out of the Socialist Federation of Greater Germany.

Please don't sell close family members. It's only Brexit.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 2.49pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin

Please don't sell close family members. It's only Brexit.

And you call me a troll. It's not even funny and borderline racist given my family circumstances.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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