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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 May 17 2.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Declare war on them.

It's about time someone said that.

'Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!'

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 May 17 8.32pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Independent Editorial today:


The Brexit negotiations have hardly begun, and have already broken down. That is not too alarmist a verdict on what appear to be reliable reports about the informal discussions over dinner between Theresa May and Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission.

According to these accounts, and public remarks by the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the British Government is entirely deluded about what to expect from the talks. Ms May is labouring under the illusion that she has bargaining power and that that power will be greatly enhanced if she wins a landslide victory in her unnecessary and premature general election. That is a blunder almost as historic as David Cameron's when he pledged an in/out referendum. It will lead to national disaster.

The Europeans are making it as clear as they can within diplomatic conventions that the British have very few cards to play, and the EU negotiators aren't much interested in the make up of the House of Commons.

So Ms May's bluff is being called, and the realities behind the diplomacy of Brexit are coming into focus. Europe is the world's largest trading and economic bloc. The UK is a great trading nation that earns an uncomfortably high proportion of its living from trade and investment with the continent. We need them more than they need us. That is the fundamental truth about the balance of power.

A rational deal advantageous to both sides, which is to say superior to the status quo, is impossible, because no possible terms can be better than the single market regime. A deal that is better than no deal is possible, and desirable, and mutually beneficial – but not inevitable.


Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain over Brexit
The dream of the hard Brexiteers and the nightmare of the Remainers is identical: the UK crashes out of the EU, has to adjust to whatever Europe decides, and tours the globe looking for deals with nations from the US to South Korea who are prioritising the EU. No amount of fantasy about a second Elizabethan era of buccaneering entrepreneurs winning new export markets will compensate for the migration of the car industry, aerospace, food processing and the City to the rest of the EU or elsewhere in the world. Communities will lose jobs, investment will collapse and Britain will recede into being the sick man of Europe as it was before joining the EU in 1973.

It takes two, in other words, to make a deal and if the EU is as united and clear in its objectives as it seems, and with the economic and political muscle to back that up, then, as has been made clear, the UK will be lucky to get the kind of limited deal Canada obtained after a decade of wrangling. To be fair to the Prime Minister, it seems to be that it is the EU Commission that is making future arrangements for EU citizens in the UK more difficult than needs be, but that merely demonstrates who wields the power in the EU-UK relationship. It also makes the case for an open and unilateral offer of full rights to those people more compelling.

That, as they say, is the big picture. But these developments shed light on other non-trivial matters. It is plain that, whatever Theresa May and David Davis may desire, these talks are not going to be kept secret, and it is shameful that the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung knows more about what is going on than do the British people in the middle of a general election. It is something the new Commons should find intolerable.

Brexit is increasingly meaning hard Brexit. If that is what this election is really about then the Prime Minister should say so. If not then she cannot take what happens on 8 June as any kind of mandate for her position and in any case she must offer the British people a say on the eventual terms of Brexit. If they are going to be as mean as they look now, then few in full possession of the facts would vote to leave, even if they'd grudgingly agree to have her in No 10. She needs to come clean with the people. Now is the time.

 


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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 8.40pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Independent Editorial today:


The Brexit negotiations have hardly begun, and have already broken down. That is not too alarmist a verdict on what appear to be reliable reports about the informal discussions over dinner between Theresa May and Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission.

According to these accounts, and public remarks by the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the British Government is entirely deluded about what to expect from the talks. Ms May is labouring under the illusion that she has bargaining power and that that power will be greatly enhanced if she wins a landslide victory in her unnecessary and premature general election. That is a blunder almost as historic as David Cameron's when he pledged an in/out referendum. It will lead to national disaster.

The Europeans are making it as clear as they can within diplomatic conventions that the British have very few cards to play, and the EU negotiators aren't much interested in the make up of the House of Commons.

So Ms May's bluff is being called, and the realities behind the diplomacy of Brexit are coming into focus. Europe is the world's largest trading and economic bloc. The UK is a great trading nation that earns an uncomfortably high proportion of its living from trade and investment with the continent. We need them more than they need us. That is the fundamental truth about the balance of power.

A rational deal advantageous to both sides, which is to say superior to the status quo, is impossible, because no possible terms can be better than the single market regime. A deal that is better than no deal is possible, and desirable, and mutually beneficial – but not inevitable.


Theresa May accuses remaining 27 EU members of ‘lining up to oppose’ Britain over Brexit
The dream of the hard Brexiteers and the nightmare of the Remainers is identical: the UK crashes out of the EU, has to adjust to whatever Europe decides, and tours the globe looking for deals with nations from the US to South Korea who are prioritising the EU. No amount of fantasy about a second Elizabethan era of buccaneering entrepreneurs winning new export markets will compensate for the migration of the car industry, aerospace, food processing and the City to the rest of the EU or elsewhere in the world. Communities will lose jobs, investment will collapse and Britain will recede into being the sick man of Europe as it was before joining the EU in 1973.

It takes two, in other words, to make a deal and if the EU is as united and clear in its objectives as it seems, and with the economic and political muscle to back that up, then, as has been made clear, the UK will be lucky to get the kind of limited deal Canada obtained after a decade of wrangling. To be fair to the Prime Minister, it seems to be that it is the EU Commission that is making future arrangements for EU citizens in the UK more difficult than needs be, but that merely demonstrates who wields the power in the EU-UK relationship. It also makes the case for an open and unilateral offer of full rights to those people more compelling.

That, as they say, is the big picture. But these developments shed light on other non-trivial matters. It is plain that, whatever Theresa May and David Davis may desire, these talks are not going to be kept secret, and it is shameful that the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung knows more about what is going on than do the British people in the middle of a general election. It is something the new Commons should find intolerable.

Brexit is increasingly meaning hard Brexit. If that is what this election is really about then the Prime Minister should say so. If not then she cannot take what happens on 8 June as any kind of mandate for her position and in any case she must offer the British people a say on the eventual terms of Brexit. If they are going to be as mean as they look now, then few in full possession of the facts would vote to leave, even if they'd grudgingly agree to have her in No 10. She needs to come clean with the people. Now is the time.

A biased, load of old w***, seeking to capitalise on the EU's attempt to influence the UK General Election and spread fear & misinformation.

BTW, we didn't join the EU in 1973, we joined the Common Market. And joining the Common Market didn't sort out our problems in the '70s. Maggie did.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 May 17 8.50pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

^^^^

It may well be biased but it could also end up being pretty much on the mark. A frightening proposition for the UK and very worrying for its - and our - prospects if so.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 8.55pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

^^^^

It may well be biased but it could also end up being pretty much on the mark. A frightening proposition for the UK and very worrying for its - and our - prospects if so.

Politically motivated crap, peddled to try and influence the election.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 02 May 17 9.00pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

^^^^

It may well be biased but it could also end up being pretty much on the mark. A frightening proposition for the UK and very worrying for its - and our - prospects if so.

It could but it is in Europes interest for a deal to be made too. Greece is still up s*** creek sans paddle and the impact on the euro if that's not sorted doesn't bare thinking about.

Arguably we need the deal more, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the EUs interest either.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 02 May 17 10.57pm

Originally posted by Lyons550


You do realise the irony of posting an article from someone admitting they have a "a particular interest in the field of propaganda. "...dont you?

Only if you view it through that lens.

It's a bit bonkers but the way this last couple of years have been is not beyond the realms of possibility, especially the bit about May's face photoshopped onto Brittania

 

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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 02 May 17 11.04pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Our divorce bill just increased to €100bn.

[Link]

Walk.

 

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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 02 May 17 11.09pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

"The commission has never published its preferred methodology"

Never has a single sentence so perfectly encapsulated the EU.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 May 17 11.13pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Our divorce bill just increased to €100bn.

[Link]

Walk.

How could it get to that and how could the Leave nor Remain campaign keep us in the dark if that is true and our obliged financial commitments are 100bn euros?

We can't walk. We owe what we owe. It will make us a bad credit risk going out into the big world.

This stinks.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 May 17 11.14pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

"The commission has never published its preferred methodology"

Never has a single sentence so perfectly encapsulated the EU.

Has anyone asked them to?

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 03 May 17 12.47am Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Maybe remind Germany of the London Debt agreement.

[Link]

 


Pro USA & Israel

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