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Chilcott Inquiry Predictions...

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Jul 16 11.16pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

"Take the decision, I took the decision. Don't say I was lying blah blah bliar bliar."

He had already made the decision and fitted the findngs around it. The decision was not based on the findings but the findings were fitted around the decision.

He committed us and couldn't go back on it. Shut everyone in cabinet and govt out of discussions.

This man and his assistants at the time should not be allowed to walk away from this.

Hundreds of thousands have died, ISIS rose from imprisonment in Iraq and Iraq is now a dangerous place to be, or just never go back to. Apparently you were better off just keeping your head down under Saddam. He was evil to a few, but there was order. Now you're in danger of having your head blown off.

Not to mention the fleeing of the country, further unsettling in the region and mass movement of millions of people. And he was made peace envoy of the Middle East?

Way to go, Tony. Real hero. He suffered a Messiah Complex following Kosovo and knew best. Better than any advice or experience in the region before. He was warned of the consequences and ignored it all.

Not only liberate the world, he wanted to remain close allies of the US and develop his relationship with Bush and the US. He has made millions and ruined the lives of millions. The man is a disgrace and I don't buy his sombre and regretful tone. It's because it's all come out.

Maybe he and Bush saw Saddam as too big a figure in the region and wanted to act rather than react but they too a big gamble and the WMD they wanted to be there never was. It might wash in the US with Tony's appearances on chat shows but it shouldn't here.


Pretty much exactly how I see it.

The man is despicable. Did well in Kosovo and was on a mission to be a hero again no matter what.

I seem to remember me and 999,999 others marching through London trying to 'Stop the War' before it had even began and with good reasons yet our thoughts really didn't concern him. Nothing did.


Edited by Kermit8 (06 Jul 2016 11.16pm)

 


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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 16 11.41pm

Just showed robin cook's resignation speech on newsnight. Seems he was right.
Also remember charles Kennedy speaking against an invasion.
remember both of them being called 'spineless' by the sun.
Funny when you look back how often the sun has got it wrong...

 

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View blackpalacefan's Profile blackpalacefan Flag 07 Jul 16 12.47am Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Just showed robin cook's resignation speech on newsnight. Seems he was right.
Also remember charles Kennedy speaking against an invasion.
remember both of them being called 'spineless' by the sun.
Funny when you look back how often the sun has got it wrong...

Indeed they did

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Jul 16 8.22am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Paul Weller got it right in '79

Come on outside, I'll sing you a lullaby
Or tell a tale how goodness prevailed
We ruled the world, we killed and robbed
The f***ing lot but we don't feel bad

It was done beneath the flag of democracy
You'll believe and I do, yes, I do, yes, I do
Yes, I do, yes, I do, yes, I do, oh

These days I find that I can't be bothered
To argue with them, well, what's the point?
Better to take your shots and drop down dead
Then they send you home in a pine overcoat
With a letter to your mum

Saying find enclosed one son
One medal and a note to say he won

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View Sportyteacher's Profile Sportyteacher Flag London 07 Jul 16 8.45am Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Iain Duncan Smith & David Cameron available for comment today? Duncan Smith as Leader of Opposition at the time was crucial by way of HIS party's vote to endorse military action based upon same intelligence information received by Blair & Kennedy.

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 07 Jul 16 8.48am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

Iain Duncan Smith & David Cameron available for comment today? Duncan Smith as Leader of Opposition at the time was crucial by way of HIS party's vote to endorse military action based upon same intelligence information received by Blair & Kennedy.

Cameron spoke yesterday

IBS hasn't said anything and as a former colonel you would think he might have had a slightly better grasp of things

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jul 16 9.38am

Originally posted by rob1969

Seven plus years, 2.5 million words, lord knows how many million of £'s - and the conclusions are those that any half intelligent person could have come to within 24 hours of being given the most basic facts.

Who has benefited from all this showboating nonsense?

The Iraqi people? their half million dead?
the families of the dead UK troops?

No - must be someone/something else!

Suggestions welcome!

I don't think you can really put a price on establishing the truth in print, in black and white. Whether anything happens, we as a nation know for a fact now what transpired, and must endeavour to remember that for the future.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Jul 16 10.05am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Just showed robin cook's resignation speech on newsnight. Seems he was right.
Also remember charles Kennedy speaking against an invasion.
remember both of them being called 'spineless' by the sun.
Funny when you look back how often the sun has got it wrong...

Although I have no time for Tony Blair,the problem with all this that it is easy to judge the actions of individuals but impossible to judge inaction.

Bush decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam and Blair went along for better or worse. We perceive the aftermath to be worse because we see a direct link between the actions of Bush and Blair and today's more complicated dangerous world. However we cannot predict or evaluate the price of their inaction because it didn't happen that way.
It is not a argument to support their decisions to invade Iraq but we must view them in the context of the time and without hindsight. We must also acknowledge that although we might all have our pet theories about what happened and why, myself included, none of us really have the bigger picture that Bush and Blair would have. Of course that bigger picture might have been the wrong picture provided by advisors that had their own agendas.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (07 Jul 2016 10.06am)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Jul 16 10.20am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Although I have no time for Tony Blair,the problem with all this that it is easy to judge the actions of individuals but impossible to judge inaction.

Given the situation at the time, of UN sanctions and inspections, I think it would be erroneous to say that inaction was in place. Effectively the threat of Iraq to the rest of the world was contained, and its capacity to influence or change that retarded to the point of insignificance.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Bush decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam and Blair went along for better or worse. We perceive the aftermath to be worse because we see a direct link between the actions of Bush and Blair to be directly responsible for today's more complicated world. We cannot predict or evaluate the price of their inaction because it didn't happen that way.

True, but then we can only judge based on what we know and knew, and the rise of IS can be tied directly to the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, and was formed out of the imprisonment of Sunni insurgents in Iraq. Given the dominance of the Sunni under Saddam, its unlikely that the organisation would have had much support in Iraq, and the alliance between Syria and Iraq, would likely have led to it being stamped out in the Syrian civil war.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It is not a argument to support their decisions to invade Iraq but we must view them in the context of the time and without hindsight.

I think there is sufficient information in the fact they'd decided on a military resolution long in advance of the war (as far back as 2001 it seems). The UK, and US, declared themselves above their own rules and laws, and despite being part of the UN security council, went against its decision and were not only wrong, but had selective ignored evidence that did not fit their case for war.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We must also acknowledge that although we might all have our pet theories about what happened and why, myself included, none of us really have the bigger picture that Bush and Blair would have. Of course that bigger picture might have been the wrong picture provided by advisors that had their own agendas.

Agendas which they were part of. Its not a case that Blair did not see or know of evidence to the contrary but that it was discarded and dismissed, to define a case for war - and was not only wrong but clearly not the only story being presented - and at least one dissenter was 'hounded' to suicide for speaking out.

Basically, the man was part of that agenda, and should pay the price for those decisions, that cost so many lives.

For the US and UK, Iraq was a golden opportunity to pump revenue funds into private companies on a scale unseen before.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 07 Jul 16 10.22am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Although I have no time for Tony Blair,the problem with all this that it is easy to judge the actions of individuals but impossible to judge inaction.

Bush decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam and Blair went along for better or worse. We perceive the aftermath to be worse because we see a direct link between the actions of Bush and Blair and today's more complicated dangerous world. However we cannot predict or evaluate the price of their inaction because it didn't happen that way.
It is not a argument to support their decisions to invade Iraq but we must view them in the context of the time and without hindsight. We must also acknowledge that although we might all have our pet theories about what happened and why, myself included, none of us really have the bigger picture that Bush and Blair would have. Of course that bigger picture might have been the wrong picture provided by advisors that had their own agendas.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (07 Jul 2016 10.06am)

Saddam was falsely inextricably linked to 9/11 by the US in order to invade. The same kind of devious lies that Hitler used to invade Poland. All about Iran too of course and making money for Haliburton but, by Jove, they couldn't have fvcked it up on the ground more if they had tried.

Sacking the Iraqi army? Good move Dick, George and Donald.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Jul 16 10.29am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Agendas which they were part of. Its not a case that Blair did not see or know of evidence to the contrary but that it was discarded and dismissed, to define a case for war - and was not only wrong but clearly not the only story being presented - and at least one dissenter was 'hounded' to suicide for speaking out.

Basically, the man was part of that agenda, and should pay the price for those decisions, that cost so many lives.

For the US and UK, Iraq was a golden opportunity to pump revenue funds into private companies on a scale unseen before.

I can't really argue with any of that other than to say that we do have the benefit of hindsight.
True, much of what has happened could have and was predicted and it seems clear that Bush in particular was determined for what ever reason to remove Saddam no matter what the consequences or with a lack of foresight to truly understand them.
Blair, I suspect, felt obliged to support Bush for broader purposes. He might well have been deluded or driven by a sense of destiny but one can only speculate.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Jul 16 10.33am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Saddam was falsely inextricably linked to 9/11 by the US in order to invade. The same kind of devious lies that Hitler used to invade Poland. All about Iran too of course and making money for Haliburton but, by Jove, they couldn't have fvcked it up on the ground more if they had tried.

Sacking the Iraqi army? Good move Dick, George and Donald.


Yeah, I think that the whole WMD thing was a contrived excuse for sure and any dissenters were silenced or bypassed.
It is easy to speculate that chaos, post war, was what they wanted, or maybe they were just indifferent to it.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (07 Jul 2016 10.33am)

 

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