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Corbyn and the whip

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 29 Jan 17 3.46pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Tory MPs don't have principles they just do as they are told.

The private citizen who won the case over parliamental sovereignity must be wondering why she bothered.

It won't be the same in Europe though.


Are you for real ????????

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 29 Jan 17 4.25pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

Are you for real ????????

Yes I am and so are all the other people who post to whom you have sent the same words we all know you.

You are an 'insignificant little worm'.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 30 Jan 17 11.24am Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Do as they are told?

Interesting conclusion.... I would say they are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Corbyn set the tone for "defying the whip" with his parliamentary record as a back bencher... that is why the voting public do not take him seriously.

Gina Miller was looking out for her own interests as a staunch remainer and hoped her actions caused a 2nd referendum to overturn Brexit and is just as bad as Tim Farron who hoped this situation would see a resurgence in LibDem popularity.

There seems to be a different reason you think the public won't ever take Corbyn seriously every day. And I'm not sure if that is a more damning indictment of him or you.

To suggest the Tories are singing from the same hymn sheet is silly. There is clearly a split, as a large number of Tory MPs campaigned for Remain.

But what they have managed to do is keep it under wraps and accept that it's done. What a very small minority of Labour MPs have chosen to do is to use it as an excuse to try and cause problems for the leadership.*

People didn't say Thatcher was a weak leader because some of her MPs publicly spoke out on Europe. Major, Hague, IDS, and Cameron all had the same issue.

MPs disagreeing does not make you a bad leader.


*I do admit (and have said as such elsewhere) that his backbench voting record means he will struggle to compel MPs to vote in line with Whip orders.

Edited by OknotOK (30 Jan 2017 11.24am)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Hoof Hearted 30 Jan 17 11.44am

Originally posted by OknotOK

There seems to be a different reason you think the public won't ever take Corbyn seriously every day. And I'm not sure if that is a more damning indictment of him or you.

To suggest the Tories are singing from the same hymn sheet is silly. There is clearly a split, as a large number of Tory MPs campaigned for Remain.

But what they have managed to do is keep it under wraps and accept that it's done. What a very small minority of Labour MPs have chosen to do is to use it as an excuse to try and cause problems for the leadership.*

People didn't say Thatcher was a weak leader because some of her MPs publicly spoke out on Europe. Major, Hague, IDS, and Cameron all had the same issue.

MPs disagreeing does not make you a bad leader.


*I do admit (and have said as such elsewhere) that his backbench voting record means he will struggle to compel MPs to vote in line with Whip orders.

Edited by OknotOK (30 Jan 2017 11.24am)

I have consistently spelled out the many reasons why Corbyn is not taken seriously by the voting public and you know it.

I have already raised Corbyn's voting record against the Labour Whips in the commons for decades as a backbencher on here before the EU referendum.
During the referendum I highlighted his opposition to the EU for the last 40 years and called him a hypocrite for campaigning for Remain.
I have consistently pointed out his failure to shine at public speaking and in the commons at PMQ's and even provided video evidence where he made himself look a complete numpty with the whole of the house laughing at him.
I highlighted his attempt to prove Virgin trains were overcrowded by staging a sit in on the train floor between the carriages when we knew he had walked past loads of empty seats as shown on the CCTV which not only showed him up as a utter liar, but a feckless idiot for not realising he was being filmed from start to finish.
I have consistently highlighted the company he keeps in Dianne Abbott and John McDonnell as him having a poor sense of judgement.
I highlighted his failure to confirm that he would press the button to launch a nuclear missile if he ever got voted in as PM.
Oh yes... and he is a scruffy, unkempt shambles of a human being that doesn't inspire confidence in his abilities.

Do you expect me to continually trot out this list or is it acceptable to highlight the most appropriate reason depending on what is being discussed at the time?

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Jan 17 11.56am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I have consistently spelled out the many reasons why Corbyn is not taken seriously by the voting public and you know it.

I have already raised Corbyn's voting record against the Labour Whips in the commons for decades as a backbencher on here before the EU referendum.
During the referendum I highlighted his opposition to the EU for the last 40 years and called him a hypocrite for campaigning for Remain.
I have consistently pointed out his failure to shine at public speaking and in the commons at PMQ's and even provided video evidence where he made himself look a complete numpty with the whole of the house laughing at him.
I highlighted his attempt to prove Virgin trains were overcrowded by staging a sit in on the train floor between the carriages when we knew he had walked past loads of empty seats as shown on the CCTV which not only showed him up as a utter liar, but a feckless idiot for not realising he was being filmed from start to finish.
I have consistently highlighted the company he keeps in Dianne Abbott and John McDonnell as him having a poor sense of judgement.
I highlighted his failure to confirm that he would press the button to launch a nuclear missile if he ever got voted in as PM.
Oh yes... and he is a scruffy, unkempt shambles of a human being that doesn't inspire confidence in his abilities.

Do you expect me to continually trot out this list or is it acceptable to highlight the most appropriate reason depending on what is being discussed at the time?

But you have never once discussed his policies.


If leadership is about sartorial sense...

16105741_10206087996038205_8016952643970100668_n.jpg Attachment: 16105741_10206087996038205_8016952643970100668_n.jpg (69.14Kb)

 

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Hoof Hearted 30 Jan 17 12.07pm

You have to laugh....

I highlight 7 important reasons why Corbyn is a car crash of an opposition leader but only the last reason is commented upon.

Any one of the 7 reasons would do for him.... like Kinnock's dip in the sea, Milibands Bacon Sandwich and Foots Duffle coat....

Priceless.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Jan 17 12.12pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

You have to laugh....

I highlight 7 important reasons why Corbyn is a car crash of an opposition leader but only the last reason is commented upon.

Any one of the 7 reasons would do for him.... like Kinnock's dip in the sea, Milibands Bacon Sandwich and Foots Duffle coat....

Priceless.

Can you actually name any of Labours policies under Corbyn?

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 30 Jan 17 12.18pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Can you actually name any of Labours policies under Corbyn?

More importantly, can Corbyn?

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Jan 17 12.39pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

More importantly, can Corbyn?

He can and he has.

 

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 30 Jan 17 12.41pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I have consistently spelled out the many reasons why Corbyn is not taken seriously by the voting public and you know it.

I have already raised Corbyn's voting record against the Labour Whips in the commons for decades as a backbencher on here before the EU referendum.
During the referendum I highlighted his opposition to the EU for the last 40 years and called him a hypocrite for campaigning for Remain.
I have consistently pointed out his failure to shine at public speaking and in the commons at PMQ's and even provided video evidence where he made himself look a complete numpty with the whole of the house laughing at him.
I highlighted his attempt to prove Virgin trains were overcrowded by staging a sit in on the train floor between the carriages when we knew he had walked past loads of empty seats as shown on the CCTV which not only showed him up as a utter liar, but a feckless idiot for not realising he was being filmed from start to finish.
I have consistently highlighted the company he keeps in Dianne Abbott and John McDonnell as him having a poor sense of judgement.
I highlighted his failure to confirm that he would press the button to launch a nuclear missile if he ever got voted in as PM.
Oh yes... and he is a scruffy, unkempt shambles of a human being that doesn't inspire confidence in his abilities.

Do you expect me to continually trot out this list or is it acceptable to highlight the most appropriate reason depending on what is being discussed at the time?

No - I suppose my point was a bit petty. If you'd have said it was one of the many reasons the voting public wouldn't take Corbyn seriously I'd have just moved on. But like I said, that is being petty.

I have accepted that Corbyn set the tone for denying the whip. I am far from convinced it has much impact on the voting public directly, but I do think it allows others to legitimately undermine his leadership and point to his own record to justify it. And that does have impact on the voting public without doubt.

I do stand by the majority of the post though - The Tories are holding themselves in check, but then I think many of the most ardent Remainers in the party have simply exited political or front bench life. But have somehow managed to do so without it looking like a political split (Cameron and Osborne for example). Others have bought into the fact that they are just implementing the popular vote.

But that actually isn't far off the exact same case for Labour. Only 2 have resigned over the stance on Article 50. Even "rebels" like Clive Lewis have said they'll vote in favour now. Those not voting in favour are mostly those form very pro-Remain seats like Stella Creasy.

Plenty of past opposition leaders - mostly Tory - have seen their MPs speak out about Europe, often defying the leadership position. I don't think Corbyn's current "crisis" is worse in that regard. His problem really is that of Labour as a whole on the issue. That they represent some of the most pro-Brexit constituencies, but also some of the most pro-Remain ones. So it is difficult to find a cohesive and coherent strategy to represent their voters.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 Jan 17 2.39pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

He can and he has.

[Link]

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Jan 17 3.43pm

Thanks.

 

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