Dutch election?

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Hrolf The Ganger 16 Mar 17 11.20am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Its lucky then the right wing absolutely do not resort to any kind of scare tactics, emotive appeals and deception of the electorate.... The left don't dominate the media, corporate interests do. The idea that the media is biased against the right wing is a bit of conspiracy paranoia. They are definitely biased against both the far left and far right. its all a product of this US Republican Rhetoric approch, where anything that's not 'us' is left wing. From Republican Moderates through to socalists I don't agree but even if that were true, in relation to immigration which is the main concern of right wing politics in Europe,corporate interests are being inadvertently supported by the liberal left.
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Hrolf The Ganger

16 Mar 17 11.20am

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Its lucky then the right wing absolutely do not resort to any kind of scare tactics, emotive appeals and deception of the electorate....

The left don't dominate the media, corporate interests do. The idea that the media is biased against the right wing is a bit of conspiracy paranoia. They are definitely biased against both the far left and far right.

its all a product of this US Republican Rhetoric approch, where anything that's not 'us' is left wing. From Republican Moderates through to socalists

I don't agree but even if that were true, in relation to immigration which is the main concern of right wing politics in Europe,corporate interests are being inadvertently supported by the liberal left.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Mar 17 11.40am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I don't agree but even if that were true, in relation to immigration which is the main concern of right wing politics in Europe,corporate interests are being inadvertently supported by the liberal left. Some of the left. A lot of traditional heartland left wing voters backed Brexit, me included. If the left are supporting corporate interests, can they really be called left wing. The likes of New Labour massively shifted the notion of left wing to be right of centre and that's continued, but in truth they're really corporate lapdogs. Liberal left is just a convenient term that lumps 'not us' into a single faction. Its like those tits who shout fascist at anything that's not leftist. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 Mar 17 11.40am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Some of the left. A lot of traditional heartland left wing voters backed Brexit, me included. If the left are supporting corporate interests, can they really be called left wing. The likes of New Labour massively shifted the notion of left wing to be right of centre and that's continued, but in truth they're really corporate lapdogs.

Liberal left is just a convenient term that lumps 'not us' into a single faction. Its like those tits who shout fascist at anything that's not leftist.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 Mar 17 11.45am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Well the simple response is to ask if you believe everything you see and hear. Opinion polls are bunk. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Mar 2017 11.16am) A poll is only as good as its source and methodology. The problem isn't with the figures, as any good social scientist will tell you, if you don't have a sample of sufficient size and variable coverage, and a methodology that supports obtaining that, then the results will be meaningless. Its why you can't just put someone on a phone with a list of numbers, outside a polling station with a clip board, or out in the street for a day. To get representative results, you must ensure a representative sample. Of course most Polling companies are only interested in providing the 'outcome' those who pay for the polls wants to see. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 Mar 17 11.45am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Well the simple response is to ask if you believe everything you see and hear. Opinion polls are bunk.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Mar 2017 11.16am)

A poll is only as good as its source and methodology. The problem isn't with the figures, as any good social scientist will tell you, if you don't have a sample of sufficient size and variable coverage, and a methodology that supports obtaining that, then the results will be meaningless.

Its why you can't just put someone on a phone with a list of numbers, outside a polling station with a clip board, or out in the street for a day.

To get representative results, you must ensure a representative sample.

Of course most Polling companies are only interested in providing the 'outcome' those who pay for the polls wants to see.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 16 Mar 17 12.02pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Some of the left. A lot of traditional heartland left wing voters backed Brexit, me included. If the left are supporting corporate interests, can they really be called left wing. The likes of New Labour massively shifted the notion of left wing to be right of centre and that's continued, but in truth they're really corporate lapdogs. Liberal left is just a convenient term that lumps 'not us' into a single faction. Its like those tits who shout fascist at anything that's not leftist. It is a easy description that allows for a conversation that doesn't require a book sized reference guide with every post. When I say that the Liberal,left support corporate interests, I mean that their attitude toward immigration and all things minority, plays into corporate hands. They deliberately create the impression that to oppose mass immigration on a number of levels is simple 'racist'. It is a perfect symbiosis. The television media is funded by business and run by lefties. They constantly brainwash the masses with supercilious moral diatribes which while probably delivered with sincerity, is cynically manipulated by their puppet masters.
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Hrolf The Ganger

16 Mar 17 12.02pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Some of the left. A lot of traditional heartland left wing voters backed Brexit, me included. If the left are supporting corporate interests, can they really be called left wing. The likes of New Labour massively shifted the notion of left wing to be right of centre and that's continued, but in truth they're really corporate lapdogs.

Liberal left is just a convenient term that lumps 'not us' into a single faction. Its like those tits who shout fascist at anything that's not leftist.

It is a easy description that allows for a conversation that doesn't require a book sized reference guide with every post.
When I say that the Liberal,left support corporate interests, I mean that their attitude toward immigration and all things minority, plays into corporate hands. They deliberately create the impression that to oppose mass immigration on a number of levels is simple 'racist'. It is a perfect symbiosis. The television media is funded by business and run by lefties. They constantly brainwash the masses with supercilious moral diatribes which while probably delivered with sincerity, is cynically manipulated by their puppet masters.

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Hrolf The Ganger 16 Mar 17 12.03pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 A poll is only as good as its source and methodology. The problem isn't with the figures, as any good social scientist will tell you, if you don't have a sample of sufficient size and variable coverage, and a methodology that supports obtaining that, then the results will be meaningless. Its why you can't just put someone on a phone with a list of numbers, outside a polling station with a clip board, or out in the street for a day. To get representative results, you must ensure a representative sample. Of course most Polling companies are only interested in providing the 'outcome' those who pay for the polls wants to see. So they are bunk.
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Hrolf The Ganger

16 Mar 17 12.03pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Its why you can't just put someone on a phone with a list of numbers, outside a polling station with a clip board, or out in the street for a day.

To get representative results, you must ensure a representative sample.

Of course most Polling companies are only interested in providing the 'outcome' those who pay for the polls wants to see.

So they are bunk.

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matt_himself Matataland 16 Mar 17 12.05pm
Originally posted by europalace Most won't be paying 52% as that's the top band for more than €66,0000. Also, many people view quality of life as more than how much tax you are paying. That's the difference between much of the UK and continental Europe where you will generally find a much higher quality of life where everything isn't measured by a tax return. That is very interesting when you consider that living standards in Southern Europe are slipping considerably, the French economic system is creaking & is now the sick man of Europe and people are leaving Eastern Europe in hoardes to escape the economic malaise there. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 16 Mar 17 12.05pm

Originally posted by europalace

Most won't be paying 52% as that's the top band for more than €66,0000. Also, many people view quality of life as more than how much tax you are paying. That's the difference between much of the UK and continental Europe where you will generally find a much higher quality of life where everything isn't measured by a tax return.

That is very interesting when you consider that living standards in Southern Europe are slipping considerably, the French economic system is creaking & is now the sick man of Europe and people are leaving Eastern Europe in hoardes to escape the economic malaise there.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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europalace Europe 16 Mar 17 1.01pm
Originally posted by matt_himself That is very interesting when you consider that living standards in Southern Europe are slipping considerably, the French economic system is creaking & is now the sick man of Europe and people are leaving Eastern Europe in hoardes to escape the economic malaise there. I live in 'southern' Europe and travel extensively in the region. I see very little of what you seem to think is going on. Remember that many people in this area of Europe aren't interested in having the lastest BMW or Mercedes on PCP and mortgaging themselves to the hilt and stampeding into the BTL market as is so common in the UK. Quality of life has a different meaning in this region where family, the elderly and the community comes first. That's why I moved here. As a matter of fact, where I live the economy has been booming for years. Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 1.02pm)
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europalace

Europe 16 Mar 17 1.01pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

I live in 'southern' Europe and travel extensively in the region. I see very little of what you seem to think is going on. Remember that many people in this area of Europe aren't interested in having the lastest BMW or Mercedes on PCP and mortgaging themselves to the hilt and stampeding into the BTL market as is so common in the UK. Quality of life has a different meaning in this region where family, the elderly and the community comes first. That's why I moved here. As a matter of fact, where I live the economy has been booming for years.

Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 1.02pm)

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npn Crowborough 16 Mar 17 1.03pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 A poll is only as good as its source and methodology. The problem isn't with the figures, as any good social scientist will tell you, if you don't have a sample of sufficient size and variable coverage, and a methodology that supports obtaining that, then the results will be meaningless. Its why you can't just put someone on a phone with a list of numbers, outside a polling station with a clip board, or out in the street for a day. To get representative results, you must ensure a representative sample. Of course most Polling companies are only interested in providing the 'outcome' those who pay for the polls wants to see. Plus the "shame" factor (for want of a better term). If you ask someone who they will vote for, and they can say Labour and the conversation is over, as opposed to UKIP (if that's their preference) and risk being subconsciously labelled a racist even if only by the spotty Herbert with the clipboard, it seems many will just tell them what they want to hear in the knowledge they'll go away. In the privacy of the polling booth, there is nobody to judge them. It's an unintentional impact of the mainstream telling everyone "these guys good, these guys bad".
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npn

Crowborough 16 Mar 17 1.03pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Its why you can't just put someone on a phone with a list of numbers, outside a polling station with a clip board, or out in the street for a day.

To get representative results, you must ensure a representative sample.

Of course most Polling companies are only interested in providing the 'outcome' those who pay for the polls wants to see.

Plus the "shame" factor (for want of a better term).

If you ask someone who they will vote for, and they can say Labour and the conversation is over, as opposed to UKIP (if that's their preference) and risk being subconsciously labelled a racist even if only by the spotty Herbert with the clipboard, it seems many will just tell them what they want to hear in the knowledge they'll go away. In the privacy of the polling booth, there is nobody to judge them.

It's an unintentional impact of the mainstream telling everyone "these guys good, these guys bad".

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matt_himself Matataland 16 Mar 17 1.32pm
Originally posted by europalace I live in 'southern' Europe and travel extensively in the region. I see very little of what you seem to think is going on. Remember that many people in this area of Europe aren't interested in having the lastest BMW or Mercedes on PCP and mortgaging themselves to the hilt and stampeding into the BTL market as is so common in the UK. Quality of life has a different meaning in this region where family, the elderly and the community comes first. That's why I moved here. As a matter of fact, where I live the economy has been booming for years. Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 1.02pm) I can assure you that living in the tax haven of Malta is very different to rural or semi rural parts of Spain and Italy, where unemployment is endemic, house prices crashed and populace is held up through EU and government grants. You obviously have a 'thing' about Britain and Brexit, which is fair enough as both is not everyone's tastes or wishes, but you cannot deny that Europe is not in a mess and that it is some sort of living Benetton advertisement, where groups of multicultural people slip down streets, work in pristine hospitals and live to help each out without worries of money. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 16 Mar 17 1.32pm

Originally posted by europalace

Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 1.02pm)

I can assure you that living in the tax haven of Malta is very different to rural or semi rural parts of Spain and Italy, where unemployment is endemic, house prices crashed and populace is held up through EU and government grants.

You obviously have a 'thing' about Britain and Brexit, which is fair enough as both is not everyone's tastes or wishes, but you cannot deny that Europe is not in a mess and that it is some sort of living Benetton advertisement, where groups of multicultural people slip down streets, work in pristine hospitals and live to help each out without worries of money.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Matataland 16 Mar 17 1.33pm
'Dutch Election' is not in the Profanisaurus or the Urban Dictionary and rather sounds like it should be. Any suggestions? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 16 Mar 17 1.33pm

'Dutch Election' is not in the Profanisaurus or the Urban Dictionary and rather sounds like it should be.

Any suggestions?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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europalace Europe 16 Mar 17 10.22pm
Originally posted by matt_himself I can assure you that living in the tax haven of Malta is very different to rural or semi rural parts of Spain and Italy, where unemployment is endemic, house prices crashed and populace is held up through EU and government grants. You obviously have a 'thing' about Britain and Brexit, which is fair enough as both is not everyone's tastes or wishes, but you cannot deny that Europe is not in a mess and that it is some sort of living Benetton advertisement, where groups of multicultural people slip down streets, work in pristine hospitals and live to help each out without worries of money. "tax haven of Malta"? Malta is part of the EU and is not a "tax haven". It shows how little you know about the EU or other parts of Europe. The fact that Malta has lower tax rates than the UK doesn't make it a "tax haven". If that was the case, the UK would be deemed a tax haven when compared to the Scandinavian group of countries. Your comments are all about money, tax etc proving my point about the UK's fetish with everything financial that rules life there. Here we work to live not the other way around as you seem to in the UK. Maybe you'll never understand that difference or maybe it's simply too late for you. Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 10.23pm)
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europalace

Europe 16 Mar 17 10.22pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

"tax haven of Malta"? Malta is part of the EU and is not a "tax haven". It shows how little you know about the EU or other parts of Europe. The fact that Malta has lower tax rates than the UK doesn't make it a "tax haven". If that was the case, the UK would be deemed a tax haven when compared to the Scandinavian group of countries.

Your comments are all about money, tax etc proving my point about the UK's fetish with everything financial that rules life there. Here we work to live not the other way around as you seem to in the UK. Maybe you'll never understand that difference or maybe it's simply too late for you.

Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 10.23pm)

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matt_himself Matataland 17 Mar 17 7.18am
Originally posted by europalace "tax haven of Malta"? Malta is part of the EU and is not a "tax haven". It shows how little you know about the EU or other parts of Europe. The fact that Malta has lower tax rates than the UK doesn't make it a "tax haven". If that was the case, the UK would be deemed a tax haven when compared to the Scandinavian group of countries. Your comments are all about money, tax etc proving my point about the UK's fetish with everything financial that rules life there. Here we work to live not the other way around as you seem to in the UK. Maybe you'll never understand that difference or maybe it's simply too late for you. Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 10.23pm) I am sorry my lad but Malta does have an advtangeous tax system and is attempting to woo companies to reside there, particularly after Brexit. I really don't follow the other parts of your 'argument'. They appear to be juxtaposed with personal prejudice. Edited by matt_himself (17 Mar 2017 7.42am) "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 17 Mar 17 7.18am

Originally posted by europalace

Edited by europalace (16 Mar 2017 10.23pm)

I am sorry my lad but Malta does have an advtangeous tax system and is attempting to woo companies to reside there, particularly after Brexit.

I really don't follow the other parts of your 'argument'. They appear to be juxtaposed with personal prejudice.

Edited by matt_himself (17 Mar 2017 7.42am)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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