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View Eden Eagle's Profile Eden Eagle Flag Kent 06 Nov 17 9.36pm Send a Private Message to Eden Eagle Add Eden Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The couldn't compete, financially or aesthetically, with their European counter-parts. British cars were ugly and very utilitarian in their appearance, where as the imports were increasingly stylish and aesthetically pleasing (and by default exotic).

Whilst I don't doubt that the Unions were partially responsible for the death of the UK car industry with their intransigence, the real problem was competition. The days of a car as just a functional thing were over once competition was introduced to the market

Ugly doesn't sell, even if its really good.


I would disagree with the view that British Cars were ugly - particularly at the start of the decade - E-type, Lotus Elan, TR6, MGB, original mini etc. The issues at BL were a combination of poor management, poor labour relations, brands competing with each other (Triumph & MG) with little co-operation between them, lack of investment and poor build quality.

I own a 1972 MGB so I am a tad biased!

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 06 Nov 17 9.43pm

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

I would disagree with the view that British Cars were ugly - particularly at the start of the decade - E-type, Lotus Elan, TR6, MGB, original mini etc. The issues at BL were a combination of poor management, poor labour relations, brands competing with each other (Triumph & MG) with little co-operation between them, lack of investment and poor build quality.

I own a 1972 MGB so I am a tad biased!

You forgot to include in your list of issues, communist agitators doing their utmost to wreck the enterprise.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Pussay Patrol Flag 06 Nov 17 11.05pm

We actually have the best car designers and engineers in the world in the UK, all the top F1 teams are based in Oxfordshire

So our niche is being at the forefront of hi spec motor engineering, we're not interested in mass producing motor cars, we don't have the workforce.

The French still have their car industry and lets be honest they are crap and lose millions.

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Nov 17 11.05pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

You forgot to include in your list of issues, communist agitators doing their utmost to wreck the enterprise.

In fact, Mrs Thatcher in her memoirs described 'Red Robbo' as a "Notorious agitator".

Edited by Willo (06 Nov 2017 11.06pm)

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 06 Nov 17 11.16pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

You forgot to include in your list of issues, communist agitators doing their utmost to wreck the enterprise.

The man said poor labour relations. A well written post from Eden Eagle. A shame some people see only single issues as the cause of the malaise.

I wrote my thesis on the Honda Rover relationship. Greedy management broke the only thing holding the company up. Just interested in a quick buck from Land Rover and mini. Absolutely dreadful and on that occasion no blame on the Unions.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 06 Nov 17 11.22pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The couldn't compete, financially or aesthetically, with their European counter-parts. British cars were ugly and very utilitarian in their appearance, where as the imports were increasingly stylish and aesthetically pleasing (and by default exotic).

Whilst I don't doubt that the Unions were partially responsible for the death of the UK car industry with their intransigence, the real problem was competition. The days of a car as just a functional thing were over once competition was introduced to the market.

And for British Cars - looking like a functional box on wheels wasn't enough. There is a reason why cars like Jaguar and Roll-Royce survived, and why Ford replaced Rover and Leyland - they understood marketing and the nature of 'consumer aspiration'.

Anyone can sell something people need, when they have a limited market freedom. Once you have completion, you could produce the best ugly object for the job, and it'll still lose out to the less functional beautiful object.

People don't make purely rational decisions, in terms of economics, aesthetics are very important. Something that is more beautiful, is inherently more appealing, even if its not as good.

Companies like BMW, Mercedes, Ford etc understood this in a way that Leyland and Rover didn't (but Jaguar and Rolls Royce did).

Ugly doesn't sell, even if its really good.


Too true on aesthetics, Jamie. Peugeot survive this way. Clueless, stubborn women who won't take notice of advice love em and then suffer the financial cost when the computer fvcks up in a big way.

Not sure on Jaguar though. The shape of jags didn't change till for a long time after the late 70s. Maybe 'status' in owning a jag rather than company focus on anything. They've since expanded from the xj6 and xjs.

 


COYP

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Nov 17 11.24pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

The man said poor labour relations. A well written post from Eden Eagle. A shame some people see only single issues as the cause of the malaise.

I wrote my thesis on the Honda Rover relationship. Greedy management broke the only thing holding the company up. Just interested in a quick buck from Land Rover and mini. Absolutely dreadful and on that occasion no blame on the Unions.

The subject of this thread is of course 'Red Robbo' so it is understandable that there are those who comment about his role at British Leyland and the antics of the bullying unions.

There is a real paradox to be found - the man who kept up a constant mantra about the protection of workers rights was the greatest destroyer of jobs in the UK motor industry.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 06 Nov 17 11.29pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle

I would disagree with the view that British Cars were ugly - particularly at the start of the decade - E-type, Lotus Elan, TR6, MGB, original mini etc. The issues at BL were a combination of poor management, poor labour relations, brands competing with each other (Triumph & MG) with little co-operation between them, lack of investment and poor build quality.

I own a 1972 MGB so I am a tad biased!

See Allegro post.

 


COYP

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 06 Nov 17 11.31pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

We actually have the best car designers and engineers in the world in the UK, all the top F1 teams are based in Oxfordshire

So our niche is being at the forefront of hi spec motor engineering, we're not interested in mass producing motor cars, we don't have the workforce.

The French still have their car industry and lets be honest they are crap and lose millions.

We do have the workforce. We lost the market share. Plain and simple. The Japanese would agree.

 


COYP

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 06 Nov 17 11.36pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

We do have the workforce. We lost the market share. Plain and simple. The Japanese would agree.

What I don't understand is why there hasn't been investment in industry to utilise the skills of those laid off in dockyards, steelworks etc.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 06 Nov 17 11.42pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

What I don't understand is why there hasn't been investment in industry to utilise the skills of those laid off in dockyards, steelworks etc.

Why would a foreign company move their production here?

Now after globalisation living costs are higher here, so is wage demand.

 


COYP

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 06 Nov 17 11.53pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

What I don't understand is why there hasn't been investment in industry to utilise the skills of those laid off in dockyards, steelworks etc.

They are better off starting their own businesses with their redundancy money. Possibly the best opportunity a lot of them will ever have.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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