Outrageous report from today’s (Watford) game

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ARGILE OLD GEEZER PORTIMAO 24 Apr 18 8.42am
Originally posted by chateauferret I actually got a dignified and candid reply from this guy so thought it probably only fair to share it. Thanks for taking the trouble to write in, rather than just barking a few obscenities on social media, so the least I can afford you is the courtesy of a reply. Milivojevic free-kick: A simple case of mistaken identity from about 80 yards away. I should have known better, because I was at Bournemouth a couple of weeks ago when he scored from a set piece. Penalties: The report I filed to Mirror Online, just before the final whistle, is not blessed with any benefits of hindsight. Like the referee, I had to call each incident as I saw it without poring forensically over replays. The first penalty claim looked spurious at best - until evidence later came to light that Kabasele grabbed a handful of Zaha's shirt momentarily, although it probably wasn't the reason Wilf went down. Unlike the Milivojevic free-kick, I should have trusted the evidence of my own eyes for the penalty shout resulting in a yellow card for simulation: as I wrote, on the spur of the moment, it looked like a penalty in real time, but the only replay I saw on a monitor did not suggest a Watford player had committed a foul. On review, later on Saturday evening, there was definite contact so it was NOT a dive. Zaha chose not to speak straight after the game, which is his prerogative, but he has spoken this morning and his comments - which I shall be reporting online and in print later - are self-explanatory. For the record, I have covered five Palace games this season, and in all but one Zaha penalty claims have been a source of controversy. In some cases the referees awarded penalties; in others, his claims were ignored. I would respectfully suggest he, like Palace fans, must accept the rough with the smooth. At the home game with Bournemouth, for instance, in my opoinion he went down looking for a penalty in the first half (not given), but the one awarded in the last minute (and missed by Benteke) was a definite foul. In any event, he is a terrific player, probably the most influential at any club outside the top five. Yours in sport, Edited by chateauferret (22 Apr 2018 7.28pm) This is just an excuse for getting it so wrong and pre judging zaha of diving, where is the appolagy, not even a "sorry"
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ARGILE OLD GEEZER

PORTIMAO 24 Apr 18 8.42am

Send a Private Message to ARGILE OLD GEEZER

Originally posted by chateauferret

I actually got a dignified and candid reply from this guy so thought it probably only fair to share it.

Thanks for taking the trouble to write in, rather than just barking a few obscenities on social media, so the least I can afford you is the courtesy of a reply.

*Milivojevic free-kick: A simple case of mistaken identity from about 80 yards away. I should have known better, because I was at Bournemouth a couple of weeks ago when he scored from a set piece.

*Penalties: The report I filed to Mirror Online, just before the final whistle, is not blessed with any benefits of hindsight. Like the referee, I had to call each incident as I saw it without poring forensically over replays.

The first penalty claim looked spurious at best - until evidence later came to light that Kabasele grabbed a handful of Zaha's shirt momentarily, although it probably wasn't the reason Wilf went down.

Unlike the Milivojevic free-kick, I should have trusted the evidence of my own eyes for the penalty shout resulting in a yellow card for simulation: as I wrote, on the spur of the moment, it looked like a penalty in real time, but the only replay I saw on a monitor did not suggest a Watford player had committed a foul. On review, later on Saturday evening, there was definite contact so it was NOT a dive.

Zaha chose not to speak straight after the game, which is his prerogative, but he has spoken this morning and his comments - which I shall be reporting online and in print later - are self-explanatory.

For the record, I have covered five Palace games this season, and in all but one Zaha penalty claims have been a source of controversy. In some cases the referees awarded penalties; in others, his claims were ignored. I would respectfully suggest he, like Palace fans, must accept the rough with the smooth. At the home game with Bournemouth, for instance, in my opoinion he went down looking for a penalty in the first half (not given), but the one awarded in the last minute (and missed by Benteke) was a definite foul.

In any event, he is a terrific player, probably the most influential at any club outside the top five.

Yours in sport,

Edited by chateauferret (22 Apr 2018 7.28pm)

This is just an excuse for getting it so wrong and pre judging zaha of diving, where is the appolagy, not even a "sorry"

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peterg Anerley 24 Apr 18 10.19am
Originally posted by OhthisbloodyPC I like this idea of reporting on events when you weren't there There was a journalist in the Independent who constantly wrote up these fascinating conversations he had with great statesman, peppered with unbelievably punchy, poignant quotes. All of which were made up. (Johann Hari was his name) We should make up accounts of conversations we've had with journalists. Brian Glanville agrees with me. So does Piers Morgan. And Kenneth Wolstenholme. Not quite right. Hari was fired for lifting quotes from other reporters' interviews so that it appeared he had conducted the interviews himself. One man who fabricated quotes outright was none other than the great chancer Boris Johnson, who was sacked from The Times in 1988 for doing just that. The right place at the right time
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peterg

Anerley 24 Apr 18 10.19am

Originally posted by OhthisbloodyPC

I like this idea of reporting on events when you weren't there

There was a journalist in the Independent who constantly wrote up these fascinating conversations he had with great statesman, peppered with unbelievably punchy, poignant quotes.

All of which were made up. (Johann Hari was his name)

We should make up accounts of conversations we've had with journalists.

Brian Glanville agrees with me. So does Piers Morgan. And Kenneth Wolstenholme.

Not quite right. Hari was fired for lifting quotes from other reporters' interviews so that it appeared he had conducted the interviews himself. One man who fabricated quotes outright was none other than the great chancer Boris Johnson, who was sacked from The Times in 1988 for doing just that.

The right place at the right time

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chateauferret 24 Apr 18 12.51pm
Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER This is just an excuse for getting it so wrong and pre judging zaha of diving, where is the appolagy, not even a "sorry" For a journalist that's as near to an apology anyone's going to get, I'm afraid. Not that it makes any difference, once it's out there it's out there and those wishing to persue an agenda will obviously recycle the bits that support their spurious argument. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

24 Apr 18 12.51pm

Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER

This is just an excuse for getting it so wrong and pre judging zaha of diving, where is the appolagy, not even a "sorry"

For a journalist that's as near to an apology anyone's going to get, I'm afraid. Not that it makes any difference, once it's out there it's out there and those wishing to persue an agenda will obviously recycle the bits that support their spurious argument.

============
The Ferret
============

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chateauferret 24 Apr 18 12.53pm
Originally posted by peterg Not quite right. Hari was fired for lifting quotes from other reporters' interviews so that it appeared he had conducted the interviews himself. One man who fabricated quotes outright was none other than the great chancer Boris Johnson, who was sacked from The Times in 1988 for doing just that. Was it not he that coined the phrase "(inverted) pyramid of piffle"? There's only one other person I've ever known use that phrase and you all know who it is. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

24 Apr 18 12.53pm

Originally posted by peterg

Was it not he that coined the phrase "(inverted) pyramid of piffle"?

There's only one other person I've ever known use that phrase and you all know who it is.

============
The Ferret
============

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topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 24 Apr 18 2.28pm
Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER This is just an excuse for getting it so wrong and pre judging zaha of diving, where is the apology, not even a "sorry" I thought it was quite a nice reply something he didn't have to do. OK, I'd have preferred for him to say Wilf didn't and doesn't dive but that was never going to happen. It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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topcat

Holmesdale / Surbiton 24 Apr 18 2.28pm

Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER

This is just an excuse for getting it so wrong and pre judging zaha of diving, where is the apology, not even a "sorry"

I thought it was quite a nice reply something he didn't have to do. OK, I'd have preferred for him to say Wilf didn't and doesn't dive but that was never going to happen.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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peterg Anerley 24 Apr 18 3.04pm
We have now been reminded that Wilf is the most fouled player in the Prem, which gives us some perspective on this nonsense. But can someone list all four occasions when he was booked for supposed diving, that is now being used against him? One was on Saturday. A second was the ridiculous Clattenf*ck booking at Watford in 2016. Anyone know the other two occasions? One that was NOT a dive, of course, was the pen in the 2013 playoff v Watford, which we won 1-0. Maybe that is why the Watford are so pissed off. Wilf stuffed them and they lost. Edited by peterg (24 Apr 2018 3.08pm) The right place at the right time
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peterg

Anerley 24 Apr 18 3.04pm

We have now been reminded that Wilf is the most fouled player in the Prem, which gives us some perspective on this nonsense. But can someone list all four occasions when he was booked for supposed diving, that is now being used against him?
One was on Saturday. A second was the ridiculous Clattenf*ck booking at Watford in 2016. Anyone know the other two occasions?
One that was NOT a dive, of course, was the pen in the 2013 playoff v Watford, which we won 1-0. Maybe that is why the Watford are so pissed off. Wilf stuffed them and they lost.

Edited by peterg (24 Apr 2018 3.08pm)

The right place at the right time

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 Apr 18 7.55pm
Originally posted by peterg One that was NOT a dive, of course, was the pen in the 2013 playoff v Watford, which we won 1-0. Maybe that is why the Watford are so pissed off. Wilf stuffed them and they lost. Edited by peterg (24 Apr 2018 3.08pm) This. Wilf is to Watford what Mark Hughes is for us, perhaps? Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 Apr 18 7.55pm

Originally posted by peterg

One that was NOT a dive, of course, was the pen in the 2013 playoff v Watford, which we won 1-0. Maybe that is why the Watford are so pissed off. Wilf stuffed them and they lost.

Edited by peterg (24 Apr 2018 3.08pm)

This. Wilf is to Watford what Mark Hughes is for us, perhaps?

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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chateauferret 24 Apr 18 8.29pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle This. Wilf is to Watford what Mark Hughes is for us, perhaps? Except that Wilf is outstandingly good whereas Hughes is s***. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

24 Apr 18 8.29pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

This. Wilf is to Watford what Mark Hughes is for us, perhaps?

Except that Wilf is outstandingly good whereas Hughes is s***.

============
The Ferret
============

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chateauferret 26 Apr 18 9.26pm
Originally posted by peterg We have now been reminded that Wilf is the most fouled player in the Prem, which gives us some perspective on this nonsense. But can someone list all four occasions when he was booked for supposed diving, that is now being used against him? One was on Saturday. A second was the ridiculous Clattenf*ck booking at Watford in 2016. Anyone know the other two occasions? One that was NOT a dive, of course, was the pen in the 2013 playoff v Watford, which we won 1-0. Maybe that is why the Watford are so pissed off. Wilf stuffed them and they lost. Edited by peterg (24 Apr 2018 3.08pm) That ref in the Arsenal vs Atletico Madrid match tonight showed us exactly how refs should deal with agricultural defenders who clumsily lunge at players or assault them with vicious "tackles" aimed at "showing them who's boss". First nasty challenge. Booked. Second nasty challenge. Off. And when the manager gets in his ear he's sent to the stand. None of this "Oh, there's only ninety seconds on the clock so we'll let it ride" shtick we get in the PL. ============ The Ferret ============
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chateauferret

26 Apr 18 9.26pm

Originally posted by peterg

Edited by peterg (24 Apr 2018 3.08pm)

That ref in the Arsenal vs Atletico Madrid match tonight showed us exactly how refs should deal with agricultural defenders who clumsily lunge at players or assault them with vicious "tackles" aimed at "showing them who's boss".

First nasty challenge. Booked. Second nasty challenge. Off. And when the manager gets in his ear he's sent to the stand.

None of this "Oh, there's only ninety seconds on the clock so we'll let it ride" shtick we get in the PL.

============
The Ferret
============

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OhthisbloodyPC 27 Apr 18 5.28pm
Isn't there a criminal law that allows members of a gang with criminal intent to be prosecuted, even if they weren't the ones who actually pulled the trigger or committed the assault? for example Derek Bentley, that bloke who got hung for the shooting of a policeman on the Wonderloaf factory (which was on St James Road) didn't actually pull the trigger. His friend did. (I've probably got the details wrong there, but you know what I mean) Maybe they should extend that law to football. If a gang of Watford defenders are constantly fouling Wilf and then appealing, dishonestly, to the referee in the hope of fraudulently getting him sent off, then they are in a Joint Venture. In which case, all six of them should be booked, and then red carded. Well that's what I think anyway. I'm quite pleased with that contribution, if I say so myself
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OhthisbloodyPC

27 Apr 18 5.28pm

Isn't there a criminal law that allows members of a gang with criminal intent to be prosecuted, even if they weren't the ones who actually pulled the trigger or committed the assault?

for example
Derek Bentley, that bloke who got hung for the shooting of a policeman on the Wonderloaf factory (which was on St James Road) didn't actually pull the trigger. His friend did.

(I've probably got the details wrong there, but you know what I mean)

Maybe they should extend that law to football.

If a gang of Watford defenders are constantly fouling Wilf and then appealing, dishonestly, to the referee in the hope of fraudulently getting him sent off, then they are in a Joint Venture.

In which case, all six of them should be booked, and then red carded.

Well that's what I think anyway.

I'm quite pleased with that contribution, if I say so myself

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Spiderman Horsham 27 Apr 18 5.53pm
Originally posted by OhthisbloodyPC Isn't there a criminal law that allows members of a gang with criminal intent to be prosecuted, even if they weren't the ones who actually pulled the trigger or committed the assault? for example Derek Bentley, that bloke who got hung for the shooting of a policeman on the Wonderloaf factory (which was on St James Road) didn't actually pull the trigger. His friend did. (I've probably got the details wrong there, but you know what I mean) Maybe they should extend that law to football. If a gang of Watford defenders are constantly fouling Wilf and then appealing, dishonestly, to the referee in the hope of fraudulently getting him sent off, then they are in a Joint Venture. In which case, all six of them should be booked, and then red carded. Well that's what I think anyway. I'm quite pleased with that contribution, if I say so myself I just hope that the publicity this week has opened the refs eyes to rotational fouling, unfortunately I doubt it. Hopefully Leicester are not into this sort of tactic
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Spiderman

Horsham 27 Apr 18 5.53pm

Originally posted by OhthisbloodyPC

Isn't there a criminal law that allows members of a gang with criminal intent to be prosecuted, even if they weren't the ones who actually pulled the trigger or committed the assault?

for example
Derek Bentley, that bloke who got hung for the shooting of a policeman on the Wonderloaf factory (which was on St James Road) didn't actually pull the trigger. His friend did.

(I've probably got the details wrong there, but you know what I mean)

Maybe they should extend that law to football.

If a gang of Watford defenders are constantly fouling Wilf and then appealing, dishonestly, to the referee in the hope of fraudulently getting him sent off, then they are in a Joint Venture.

In which case, all six of them should be booked, and then red carded.

Well that's what I think anyway.

I'm quite pleased with that contribution, if I say so myself

I just hope that the publicity this week has opened the refs eyes to rotational fouling, unfortunately I doubt it. Hopefully Leicester are not into this sort of tactic

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Stuk Top half 27 Apr 18 6.08pm
Originally posted by OhthisbloodyPC Isn't there a criminal law that allows members of a gang with criminal intent to be prosecuted, even if they weren't the ones who actually pulled the trigger or committed the assault? for example Derek Bentley, that bloke who got hung for the shooting of a policeman on the Wonderloaf factory (which was on St James Road) didn't actually pull the trigger. His friend did. (I've probably got the details wrong there, but you know what I mean) Maybe they should extend that law to football. If a gang of Watford defenders are constantly fouling Wilf and then appealing, dishonestly, to the referee in the hope of fraudulently getting him sent off, then they are in a Joint Venture. In which case, all six of them should be booked, and then red carded. Well that's what I think anyway. I'm quite pleased with that contribution, if I say so myself It's called joint enterprise and it is on very shaky ground with cases being overturned. [Link] Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 27 Apr 18 6.08pm

Originally posted by OhthisbloodyPC

Isn't there a criminal law that allows members of a gang with criminal intent to be prosecuted, even if they weren't the ones who actually pulled the trigger or committed the assault?

for example
Derek Bentley, that bloke who got hung for the shooting of a policeman on the Wonderloaf factory (which was on St James Road) didn't actually pull the trigger. His friend did.

(I've probably got the details wrong there, but you know what I mean)

Maybe they should extend that law to football.

If a gang of Watford defenders are constantly fouling Wilf and then appealing, dishonestly, to the referee in the hope of fraudulently getting him sent off, then they are in a Joint Venture.

In which case, all six of them should be booked, and then red carded.

Well that's what I think anyway.

I'm quite pleased with that contribution, if I say so myself

It's called joint enterprise and it is on very shaky ground with cases being overturned.

[Link]

Optimistic as ever

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