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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Flag People's Republic of Gozo 12 Oct 18 10.04pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

Originally posted by Mstrobez

But that’s just completely baseless.

We played it in our biggest ever premier league win against Leicester. And a few other times when we looked great. Including the away win at Stoke and Bournemouth away where we looked far more of a threat than we did last time out.

It is by far the best football we have ever played in the premier league in that system.

When did this “getting found out” period occur? Because I must have missed it.

The absolute fundamental need for a target man no longer exists in football. Liverpool, perhaps the most attackingly fluid team in the league don’t even play with a striker.

It worked well for us, a damn sight better than what we have currently.

Edited by Mstrobez (12 Oct 2018 4.05pm)

You know what, I'll hold my hands up. I completely forgot we played the two of them together at the end of the season. I was thinking of October/November 2017 when aside from the Chelsea result it didn't really work. In fact Tekkers return to the team saw us get a win at Stoke (he came on at h/t when it was 0-0) and scored in the 3-0 win away to Leicester after we reverted to a normal striker. Maybe dementia is setting in early?

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 12 Oct 18 10.31pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Last season's spell without Benteke we still had the likes of Cabaye and RLC and some variation. This season not.

Townsend has been abysmal, our midfield has no thrust or creativity without the above, Townsend and Wilf cut in at every opportunity and PVA and Wan Bissaka couldn't cross a road let alone get the ball past the first defender. Sorloth has the touch of a rapist and Ayew is the slowest supposed winger playing centre forward I've ever seen.


And we have no aerial threat without Benteke. We look a nothing, wishy washy load of rubbish who passes the ball too much.

At least there may be a threat in the box with Benteke that will open opportunities up even if he cant score them.


 

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View matthau's Profile matthau Flag South Croydon 12 Oct 18 11.00pm Send a Private Message to matthau Add matthau as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

You know what, I'll hold my hands up. I completely forgot we played the two of them together at the end of the season. I was thinking of October/November 2017 when aside from the Chelsea result it didn't really work. In fact Tekkers return to the team saw us get a win at Stoke (he came on at h/t when it was 0-0) and scored in the 3-0 win away to Leicester after we reverted to a normal striker. Maybe dementia is setting in early?

Nah, your wrong

He’s right. We did play superb footie without a target man. Some of our best ever.

The difference this season is we haven’t played that formation yet. Wilde and or Ayew or sorloth up front. Andros hasn’t played up front yet like he did in that formation last season.

Hope it happens again

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 12 Oct 18 11.21pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Originally posted by matthau

Nah, your wrong

He’s right. We did play superb footie without a target man. Some of our best ever.

The difference this season is we haven’t played that formation yet. Wilde and or Ayew or sorloth up front. Andros hasn’t played up front yet like he did in that formation last season.

Hope it happens again

Difference is this season we don't have the midfield players to back it up.

Edited by Rachid Rachid Rachid (12 Oct 2018 11.22pm)

 

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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Flag People's Republic of Gozo 12 Oct 18 11.25pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

Originally posted by matthau

Nah, your wrong

He’s right. We did play superb footie without a target man. Some of our best ever.

The difference this season is we haven’t played that formation yet. Wilde and or Ayew or sorloth up front. Andros hasn’t played up front yet like he did in that formation last season.

Hope it happens again

I said I was wrong. At the end of the season it did work. It stopped working at the end of 2017, hence Bentenke returned and we went unbeaten for 12 out of 14 games. Yes, I agree the football was good at the end of the season. I forgot that (somehow!) Maybe it would work, but I still don't think it's the answer. Andros has 7 goals in 89 appearances, so I don't think he's going to suddenly come up with a hatful of goals. He might do. Wickham has 9 goals in 23 starts (plus 11 subs) so I don't think my belief that he could come back and score is that baseless. He is a better finisher than Townsend and is stronger on the ball. The likelihood is neither scenarios will arise and our opinions will remain just that.

 

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View Mstrobez's Profile Mstrobez Flag 13 Oct 18 8.31am Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

Last season's spell without Benteke we still had the likes of Cabaye and RLC and some variation. This season not.

Townsend has been abysmal, our midfield has no thrust or creativity without the above, Townsend and Wilf cut in at every opportunity and PVA and Wan Bissaka couldn't cross a road let alone get the ball past the first defender. Sorloth has the touch of a rapist and Ayew is the slowest supposed winger playing centre forward I've ever seen.

And we have no aerial threat without Benteke. We look a nothing, wishy washy load of rubbish who passes the ball too much.

At least there may be a threat in the box with Benteke that will open opportunities up even if he cant score them.


I completely disagree. When we have Benteke or any other target man/traditional striker in the team, I think we play some absolute nonsense at times. Just gung ho, lump it football. It can be the answer sometimes, but it’s not sustainable and often leads to just being a case of hit and hope for the best.

The Andros & Wilf partnership was very dynamic. Their pace meant they could press from the front and run in behind & all over the place, it caused defenders a whole lot more problems than lumping it to a big man and preying on the second ball. And because they were traditional wingers, it left the option later in games to bring a big man on at the expense of a midfielder and give the opposition something else to deal with. For me, the target man works well as a plan b. But when we wanna take a game to an opponent from the off, it can often be pretty toothless.

The system also forced us to play. Which we’ve proven time and time again. If we actually are interested in doing it, we can. It was often high intensity and intricate. It let Wilf be completely freed of the shackles of defensive responsibility too and whilst sometimes he could get a bit isolated, he was more often in the right positions in key moments. Meaning he scored and assisted more. It was the epitome of building the team around him.

As for your point on personnel, last year the midfield we used most often in that system was -

Mccarthur - Cabaye - Luka - RLC

Cabaye is a big miss, granted. But we can easily field Kouyate in that position as a holding midfielder alongside Luka. Mccarthur can stay where he is. And the hole left by RLC can be taken up by Meyer. They are different players, yes. But both of their key attributes suit that of a creative & attacking midfielder. I’ve seen Meyer play at his best, and we genuinely have one of the best young creative midfielders in Europe on our hands if we use him properly.

Often times you’d see RLC shift centrally and just behind the front 2 in attacks, linking up with them and getting involved. Meyer would have the license to do the exact same thing. As I said previously, he’s not gonna be the powerhouse RLC was - but he can certainly dribble and his technical play and link up with other players in the team will more than make up for what he lacks physically. That’s kinda the point with players of his ilk.

I guess the issue we have now is the opposition we’ve got coming up is hardly the type we’ll be taking games to from the off. But still, I’d find it very odd if we weren’t to revert to this system at some point this season, given the fact it worked so well for us as times last season - and it was one pretty much entirely of Roy’s making.


Edited by Mstrobez (13 Oct 2018 8.35am)

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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View Henry of Peckham's Profile Henry of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 13 Oct 18 8.55am Send a Private Message to Henry of Peckham Add Henry of Peckham as a friend

Palace striker? Send our footballing scouts and their guide dogs out to recruit at the local donkey sanctuary ... the residents have more chance of staying fit and scoring than what we currently pay £000s for.

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 13 Oct 18 9.17am Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Originally posted by Mstrobez

I completely disagree. When we have Benteke or any other target man/traditional striker in the team, I think we play some absolute nonsense at times. Just gung ho, lump it football. It can be the answer sometimes, but it’s not sustainable and often leads to just being a case of hit and hope for the best.

The Andros & Wilf partnership was very dynamic. Their pace meant they could press from the front and run in behind & all over the place, it caused defenders a whole lot more problems than lumping it to a big man and preying on the second ball. And because they were traditional wingers, it left the option later in games to bring a big man on at the expense of a midfielder and give the opposition something else to deal with. For me, the target man works well as a plan b. But when we wanna take a game to an opponent from the off, it can often be pretty toothless.

The system also forced us to play. Which we’ve proven time and time again. If we actually are interested in doing it, we can. It was often high intensity and intricate. It let Wilf be completely freed of the shackles of defensive responsibility too and whilst sometimes he could get a bit isolated, he was more often in the right positions in key moments. Meaning he scored and assisted more. It was the epitome of building the team around him.

As for your point on personnel, last year the midfield we used most often in that system was -

Mccarthur - Cabaye - Luka - RLC

Cabaye is a big miss, granted. But we can easily field Kouyate in that position as a holding midfielder alongside Luka. Mccarthur can stay where he is. And the hole left by RLC can be taken up by Meyer. They are different players, yes. But both of their key attributes suit that of a creative & attacking midfielder. I’ve seen Meyer play at his best, and we genuinely have one of the best young creative midfielders in Europe on our hands if we use him properly.

Often times you’d see RLC shift centrally and just behind the front 2 in attacks, linking up with them and getting involved. Meyer would have the license to do the exact same thing. As I said previously, he’s not gonna be the powerhouse RLC was - but he can certainly dribble and his technical play and link up with other players in the team will more than make up for what he lacks physically. That’s kinda the point with players of his ilk.

I guess the issue we have now is the opposition we’ve got coming up is hardly the type we’ll be taking games to from the off. But still, I’d find it very odd if we weren’t to revert to this system at some point this season, given the fact it worked so well for us as times last season - and it was one pretty much entirely of Roy’s making.


Edited by Mstrobez (13 Oct 2018 8.35am)

I didn’t see much lump it football last season. Neither have I
seen anything to suggest thus far that Kouyate can come close to filling Cabaye’s boots or that Meyer can beat a player the way RLC can.

At the moment stop Zaha stop us. Benteke at least carries an aerial threat physical presence. Don’t get me wrong I’m not a fan but the alternatives are rubbish and the midfield is way off the quality of last season.

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag Chelsea 13 Oct 18 9.38am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

If it were me I would blood some of our youngsters. Absolutely nothing to lose. They are super quick accurate and not scared to shoot. Flanagan and Kakai for starters.
Fed up with hearing about Ayew and Sorloth. Donkeys.
Watch the Dulwich Hamlet video. These guys are so quick penetrating and agile.
Come on Roy. Give them a run.

 

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View lehhhh's Profile lehhhh Flag 13 Oct 18 11.21am Send a Private Message to lehhhh Add lehhhh as a friend

How many minutes did Sorloth get this season? 83 mins

Surprised that you guys don't see the flaw in this logic. Meanwhile, Ayew gets sucked off, starting every game.

 

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View Henry of Peckham's Profile Henry of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 13 Oct 18 4.51pm Send a Private Message to Henry of Peckham Add Henry of Peckham as a friend

Originally posted by lehhhh

How many minutes did Sorloth get this season? 83 mins

Surprised that you guys don't see the flaw in this logic. Meanwhile, Ayew gets sucked off, starting every game.

... and that was 83 minutes too much. No disrespect to Sorloth but he's no Glenn Murray and I don't think he'll ever be good enough to fill his boots. He is so far behind the ball he would have to start 10 minutes before everyone else just to keep up.

No one backed up Ayew in our last home game. The team appears to be tactically inept once the ball gets into the final third.

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Oct 18 10.31pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Henry of Peckham

Palace striker? Send our footballing scouts and their guide dogs out to recruit at the local donkey sanctuary ... the residents have more chance of staying fit and scoring than what we currently pay £000s for.

Replace Ayew with “ee-aw”, you mean?

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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