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February 20 2019 1.22am

Baby Hitler

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 23 Jan 19 2.03pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Perhaps better to go back to the end of WW1 and actually invade Germany and defeat them properly? Reparations unnecessary as we could have split the country between the Allies. No doubt some lunatic would have done something though - don't they always?
Been quiet for a while in Europe, perhaps Putin can heat things up? Anyway, reckon the world needs a cull - Europe probably not the best example for this - presumably Asia. The middle East just does not start massive wars and we are all bored of it by now. Africa just gets ignored. South China Sea seems most likely.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 19 2.05pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Bang goes my ability to sleep at night!

It's your reasoning ability I would worry about.

Have you thought about what killing Hitler might cause?

Never mind. I wouldn't want to overtax your mind and get blamed for your brain melting as well as insomnia.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 19 2.10pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

With all the sh1te that's coming down the pipe in the coming decades for our descendants....lets hope that they know that they have to face in the same direction and not at each other.

But for now...I guess it doesn't matter that much.

I suppose a more interesting and practical hypothetical is who you would kill in the present day.

That might also give one better insight into how difficult it might be to kill an innocent baby in 1889.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Jan 2019 2.11pm)

 

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View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 23 Jan 19 2.29pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger



It's your reasoning ability I would worry about.

Have you thought about what killing Hitler might cause?

Never mind. I wouldn't want to overtax your mind and get blamed for your brain melting as well as insomnia.

It's a hypothetical situation, there is no basis in reality and no arguable empirical evidence to justify considering any of the completely baseless computations rattling around your head.
It boils down to a simple: "given what you know about the bloke, would you slot him as a baby" and "would you do the same with Marx"

Yes is clearly the answer for most sane people, not worrying about unquantifiable butterfly effects.

Stick that in ya pipe and smoke it, assuming your brain hasn't melted!

Edited by ChrisGC (23 Jan 2019 2.30pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 19 2.36pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Edited by ChrisGC (23 Jan 2019 2.30pm)

But you would have to be worried about the butterfly effect.

Otherwise, why would you be worried about killing Hitler in the first place based on his future behaviour?

That would make no sense Einstein.

 

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View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 23 Jan 19 2.49pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

But you would have to be worried about the butterfly effect.

Otherwise, why would you be worried about killing Hitler in the first place based on his future behaviour?

That would make no sense Einstein.

The butterfly effect is a construct relating in theory to unknown ripples extending from your actions. It's pure supposition. You can't worry about what you don't know.

You already know the consequence of letting the baby live, which is what you're looking to change.

Nice attempt at digging yourself out of a hole, Chaplin.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 19 2.57pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

The butterfly effect is a construct relating in theory to unknown ripples extending from your actions. It's pure supposition. You can't worry about what you don't know.

You already know the consequence of letting the baby live, which is what you're looking to change.

Nice attempt at digging yourself out of a hole, Chaplin.

Give me strength.

Yes, you know what letting him live would allow but you don't know if killing him might make matter worse.

You don't have to know specifically how it might be worse, just that you could be responsible for say World War 3 in the '50s.
Killing him just because you don't like him would, therefore, be as dumb as you can get.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 23 Jan 19 3.03pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ChrisGC

The butterfly effect is a construct relating in theory to unknown ripples extending from your actions. It's pure supposition. You can't worry about what you don't know.

You already know the consequence of letting the baby live, which is what you're looking to change.

Nice attempt at digging yourself out of a hole, Chaplin.


Yeah but that's also supposition.....the architects of the final solution and the mass murder of opposition was multiple.

You would have to stop the rise of Fascism from taking over Germany and Hitler was the figurehead not the cause....Hitler was the tip of that organisation, not the organistion itself.

Killing baby Hitler is questionable as to whether it could have stopped those events.

Far better than murdering a baby is to change the circumstances....make sure he enters art school.

But the even bigger question centres around the discovery of the atom bomb.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jan 2019 3.06pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 19 3.19pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Yeah but that's also supposition.....the architects of the final solution and the mass murder of opposition was multiple.

You would have to stop the rise of Fascism from taking over Germany and Hitler was the figurehead not the cause....Hitler was the tip of that organisation, not the organistion itself.

Killing baby Hitler is questionable as to whether it could have stopped those events.

Far better than murdering a baby is to change the circumstances....make sure he enters art school.

But the even bigger question centres around the discovery of the atom bomb.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jan 2019 3.06pm)

I suppose it also asks a question about the inevitability of events when a civilization achieves a certain level of technology.
Do personalities really make much difference or are we doomed to endure destructive wars and genocide no matter what?

One has to imagine that the answer is probably yes.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 23 Jan 19 4.05pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I suppose it also asks a question about the inevitability of events when a civilization achieves a certain level of technology.
Do personalities really make much difference or are we doomed to endure destructive wars and genocide no matter what?

One has to imagine that the answer is probably yes.


You are probably right.....I know the most depressing answer to the Fermi paradox of why we don't see lots of evidence of aliens out in the universe is the idea that once a certain level of civilization is reached they wipe themselves out.

I'm frequently angered by the knowledge that the governments of the last fifty years have done nothing....zero..in the way of providing some kind of shelter for their populations.....and they don't have the excuse of saying it's too expensive because other countries like Switzerland have.....Obviously we couldn't house everybody....but nothing has been provided...No realistic hope......Nothing.

Anyway if it's not civilisations wiping themselves out....perhaps it's the highly unlikely event that we are the first major civilisation......It's highly unlikely given the age and size of the universe but I guess there would always have to be a first and they would also find it difficult to believe they were the first.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jan 2019 4.12pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jan 19 6.30pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


You are probably right.....I know the most depressing answer to the Fermi paradox of why we don't see lots of evidence of aliens out in the universe is the idea that once a certain level of civilization is reached they wipe themselves out.

I'm frequently angered by the knowledge that the governments of the last fifty years have done nothing....zero..in the way of providing some kind of shelter for their populations.....and they don't have the excuse of saying it's too expensive because other countries like Switzerland have.....Obviously we couldn't house everybody....but nothing has been provided...No realistic hope......Nothing.

Anyway if it's not civilisations wiping themselves out....perhaps it's the highly unlikely event that we are the first major civilisation......It's highly unlikely given the age and size of the universe but I guess there would always have to be a first and they would also find it difficult to believe they were the first.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jan 2019 4.12pm)

I'd like to believe that the Fermi Paradox is a little pessimistic but clearly, it is very unlikely that any civilization will last for eternity. It is easy to imagine that levels of technology on any planet would be based on a similar discovery timeline to our own with space exploration and weapons of war being closely linked.
If I was being ultra optimistic, I would speculate that some species may be less inclined to kill each other than ours and therefore get the technology without the war but of course, war is only one way to destroy yourselves.

Getting back to Adolf. It is fairly clear, given what we have discussed, that killing a baby would only change the details of events but not avoid the negatives.
As I suggested earlier in the thread, Planet Earth and it's inhabitants are doomed regardless of the details and so any retrospective action would be kind of pointless in the grand scheme.
Baby Hitler is safe in my hands but I might instead return to visit him in the bunker, kick him in the bollocks a few times and tell him how his plan for the dominance of his master race has probably caused the exact opposite to occur. That would be quite satisfying.

 

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View ChrisGC's Profile ChrisGC Flag Wantage 23 Jan 19 9.27pm Send a Private Message to ChrisGC Add ChrisGC as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Give me strength.

Yes, you know what letting him live would allow but you don't know if killing him might make matter worse.

You don't have to know specifically how it might be worse, just that you could be responsible for say World War 3 in the '50s.
Killing him just because you don't like him would, therefore, be as dumb as you can get.

You'd hold off killing HITLER in case it made matters WORSE?
Bit of a nerve calling anyone else dumb...

 

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