HS2 Review

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steeleye20 Croydon 29 Sep 23 11.34am
Originally posted by cryrst HS2 must be completed. People said the same about the big white tent in Greenwich, the M25 and other major projects. Yes you can build schools and hospitals with the money but then the ongoing costs of those will need finding. As a country the infrastructure is vitally important. If rail or road or waterways etc. progress costs and if not now the railways will need to be replaced at some stage as they are wearing out. This would be the start of those projects. The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2.
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steeleye20

Croydon 29 Sep 23 11.34am

Originally posted by cryrst

HS2 must be completed. People said the same about the big white tent in Greenwich, the M25 and other major projects. Yes you can build schools and hospitals with the money but then the ongoing costs of those will need finding. As a country the infrastructure is vitally important. If rail or road or waterways etc. progress costs and if not now the railways will need to be replaced at some stage as they are wearing out. This would be the start of those projects.

The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2.

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georgenorman 29 Sep 23 1.21pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2. Agreed, lunatic project.
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georgenorman

29 Sep 23 1.21pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2.

Agreed, lunatic project.

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nobody sussex 04 Oct 23 10.07am
Now that we know what Rishi has decided on this subject it will be interesting to see if the Beeb and outher media start pressing Starmer on whether he will re instate it. Much squirming at Labout HQ I expect
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nobody

sussex 04 Oct 23 10.07am

Now that we know what Rishi has decided on this subject it will be interesting to see if the Beeb and outher media start pressing Starmer on whether he will re instate it.

Much squirming at Labout HQ I expect

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Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 04 Oct 23 11.36am
Originally posted by steeleye20 The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2. Agreed. Nonsense project just so folk on a train can arrive in Leeds a few minutes earlier than existing train. Anyway, we don't have the same amount of room in our countryside for huge infrastructure compared with France, Spain and other countries used as examples. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 04 Oct 23 11.36am

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Originally posted by steeleye20

The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2.

Agreed. Nonsense project just so folk on a train can arrive in Leeds a few minutes earlier than existing train. Anyway, we don't have the same amount of room in our countryside for huge infrastructure compared with France, Spain and other countries used as examples.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Oct 23 12.34pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2. The project management has been a disaster but if we want a rail service fit for the this century then we need a high speed rail system not only up the spine of the country to Scotland but into Wales and the South West. One of my many complaints was why did they start in London? They should have started it oop North and gone downwards, so perhaps at say Birmingham if the cost got too much then just use the existing line to London. If we want to be green in this country we need a fast railway system but it should not be an either or plenty of other rail projects to be done as well. Edited by Badger11 (04 Oct 2023 12.35pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Oct 23 12.34pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The infrastructure of the country in particular the rail network, is not improved, but reduced, by HS2.

The project management has been a disaster but if we want a rail service fit for the this century then we need a high speed rail system not only up the spine of the country to Scotland but into Wales and the South West.

One of my many complaints was why did they start in London? They should have started it oop North and gone downwards, so perhaps at say Birmingham if the cost got too much then just use the existing line to London.

If we want to be green in this country we need a fast railway system but it should not be an either or plenty of other rail projects to be done as well.

Edited by Badger11 (04 Oct 2023 12.35pm)

One more point

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NE14T 04 Oct 23 1.13pm
Unfortunately the contractors between London and Birmingham held the government to ransom and completely fleeced the tax payer. The profiteering must border on fraud. Sure the government could have done more and been tougher holding them accountable contractually. Either way the contractors killed the golden goose. Rip off Britain at it worse and don’t give me the inflation bollox argument which is dwarfed by the sheer basic dishonest over-charging. The beatings will stop when morale improves.
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NE14T

04 Oct 23 1.13pm

Unfortunately the contractors between London and Birmingham held the government to ransom and completely fleeced the tax payer. The profiteering must border on fraud. Sure the government could have done more and been tougher holding them accountable contractually.

Either way the contractors killed the golden goose. Rip off Britain at it worse and don’t give me the inflation bollox argument which is dwarfed by the sheer basic dishonest over-charging.

The beatings will stop when morale improves.

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dreamwaverider London 04 Oct 23 2.29pm
Originally posted by NE14T Unfortunately the contractors between London and Birmingham held the government to ransom and completely fleeced the tax payer. The profiteering must border on fraud. Sure the government could have done more and been tougher holding them accountable contractually. Either way the contractors killed the golden goose. Rip off Britain at it worse and don’t give me the inflation bollox argument which is dwarfed by the sheer basic dishonest over-charging. This is exactly why Palace need to tread very carefully re new stand. Only do it on a fixed price and make sure we have got the cash in full before they start. If they think £100m three years ago, then expect £200m by the time it's finished now. Something we currently cannot contemplate.
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dreamwaverider

London 04 Oct 23 2.29pm

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Originally posted by NE14T

Either way the contractors killed the golden goose. Rip off Britain at it worse and don’t give me the inflation bollox argument which is dwarfed by the sheer basic dishonest over-charging.

This is exactly why Palace need to tread very carefully re new stand. Only do it on a fixed price and make sure we have got the cash in full before they start. If they think £100m three years ago, then expect £200m by the time it's finished now. Something we currently cannot contemplate.

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Hrolf The Ganger 04 Oct 23 2.35pm
HS2 was a bad idea. Sunak has made a brave decision to cancel it, but ultimately, it was the right choice. I feel sorry for the people who had to sell their houses on the route but at least the north will get better connections which it badly needs.
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Hrolf The Ganger

04 Oct 23 2.35pm

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HS2 was a bad idea.
Sunak has made a brave decision to cancel it, but ultimately, it was the right choice.

I feel sorry for the people who had to sell their houses on the route but at least the north will get better connections which it badly needs.

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YT Oxford 04 Oct 23 4.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger HS2 was a bad idea. Sunak has made a brave decision to cancel it, but ultimately, it was the right choice. I feel sorry for the people who had to sell their houses on the route but at least the north will get better connections which it badly needs. I agree. It was an insane project from the outset. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 04 Oct 23 4.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

HS2 was a bad idea.
Sunak has made a brave decision to cancel it, but ultimately, it was the right choice.

I feel sorry for the people who had to sell their houses on the route but at least the north will get better connections which it badly needs.

I agree. It was an insane project from the outset.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 04 Oct 23 7.05pm
The money 'saved' (forgetting all the cash already wasted) will be used on "stuff for the North" and BETTER ROADS. what a bunch of electioneering incompetent b'asterds. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 04 Oct 23 7.05pm

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The money 'saved' (forgetting all the cash already wasted) will be used on "stuff for the North" and BETTER ROADS.

what a bunch of electioneering incompetent b'asterds.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Hrolf The Ganger 04 Oct 23 7.25pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly The money 'saved' (forgetting all the cash already wasted) will be used on "stuff for the North" and BETTER ROADS. what a bunch of electioneering incompetent b'asterds. It looks like a bad choice to some whatever Sunak does. Ideally, the thing gets finished, but the cost of it is now far more than the benefits. I came into this week thinking that it should be finished, but when you think about the potential for improving northern connections with that money, you have to concede that it could be better spent there. Beyond the politics and after consideration, many up north might feel that too. Announcing this at a conference might not have been the wisest thing. It then looks like a political decision and grabs the headlines.
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Hrolf The Ganger

04 Oct 23 7.25pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

The money 'saved' (forgetting all the cash already wasted) will be used on "stuff for the North" and BETTER ROADS.

what a bunch of electioneering incompetent b'asterds.

It looks like a bad choice to some whatever Sunak does.

Ideally, the thing gets finished, but the cost of it is now far more than the benefits.
I came into this week thinking that it should be finished, but when you think about the potential for improving northern connections with that money, you have to concede that it could be better spent there. Beyond the politics and after consideration, many up north might feel that too.

Announcing this at a conference might not have been the wisest thing. It then looks like a political decision and grabs the headlines.

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Matov Online 04 Oct 23 7.25pm
I think cancelling this cancellation is insanity. The issue is not about people getting somewhere a few minutes early, the issue is that the HS project represents a confidence in the UK's future. Most foreign investment comes in London and the SE because the north of the country is seen as some bleak provisional hell hole. HS2 was as much about image as anything else. The kind of project a confident nation carries out. To ditch it as this stage is to just surrender to decline. And just when it is revealed that the UK is outstripping the likes of Gemrany and France in terms of post-Covid growth. This project was about national prestige. To say to investors that you might want to live in the SE but if you invest up North, we can speed you up there quicker than now. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov Online

04 Oct 23 7.25pm

I think cancelling this cancellation is insanity. The issue is not about people getting somewhere a few minutes early, the issue is that the HS project represents a confidence in the UK's future. Most foreign investment comes in London and the SE because the north of the country is seen as some bleak provisional hell hole.

HS2 was as much about image as anything else. The kind of project a confident nation carries out.

To ditch it as this stage is to just surrender to decline. And just when it is revealed that the UK is outstripping the likes of Gemrany and France in terms of post-Covid growth.

This project was about national prestige. To say to investors that you might want to live in the SE but if you invest up North, we can speed you up there quicker than now.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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