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September 20 2019 9.09am

Hate Speech

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View HeathMan's Profile HeathMan Flag Purley 08 Sep 19 7.17am Send a Private Message to HeathMan Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add HeathMan as a friend

Thank you - all contributions were usefully thought provoking. Each of our worlds is changing, and we also have access to the worlds of others. It used to be work, eat, sleep, but life is not so simple anymore. Happy to leave others to progress this thread.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 08 Sep 19 11.50pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Just to add a commentary on the realities of speaking your real opinions at universities and in professional lives generally.

[Link]

 

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 08 Sep 19 11.56pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Example of the rise in broadcasting anything I mentioned:

[Link]

 


A one and a two...

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 09 Sep 19 12.04am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by tome

Example of the rise in broadcasting anything I mentioned:

[Link]

But what's that got to do with, what is today regarded often regarded as 'hate speech'? I've already answered that there is no need to protect inoffensive speech.

The reality that improvements in technology have enabled increased flows of communication is acknowledged.....that isn't the issue at hand.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2019 12.05am)

 

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 09 Sep 19 12.05am Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Just to add a commentary on the realities of speaking your real opinions at universities and in professional lives generally.

[Link]

Well, some realities. I agree with general line that freedom of speech is essential to stimulate progress, and like I said before, I don't think many organisations have figured out how to handle strong debate. Sadly that is true in some academic and professional contexts where you would hope for a more enlightened view.

 


A one and a two...

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View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 09 Sep 19 12.10am Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

But what's that got to do with, what is today regarded often regarded as 'hate speech'? I've already answered that there is no need to protect inoffensive speech.

The reality that improvements in technology have enabled increased flows of communication is acknowledged.....that isn't the issue at hand.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2019 12.05am)

Did you see my point in response to you about 'more speech'?

I think part of the point is that many don't know how to handle open debate - not precluding anyone from this, myself included. I haven't seen much evidence of real discussion anywhere myself. It's often either bigots lashing out incoherently, or bureucrats reacting in over the top ways. Neither really creates an environment which brokers diverse perspectives, maybe because their underlying intention is to get attention or shut it down.

 


A one and a two...

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 09 Sep 19 12.41am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by tome

Did you see my point in response to you about 'more speech'?

I think part of the point is that many don't know how to handle open debate - not precluding anyone from this, myself included. I haven't seen much evidence of real discussion anywhere myself. It's often either bigots lashing out incoherently, or bureucrats reacting in over the top ways. Neither really creates an environment which brokers diverse perspectives, maybe because their underlying intention is to get attention or shut it down.

What difference does the motive make?....I read your post and found it fair enough.

For me, liberty is the point, motive inoffensive or offensive is subjective.

We have always had some restrictions on speech.....the point was in keeping those restrictions as limited as possible.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2019 12.42am)

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 09 Sep 19 12.44am Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

the only thing I'd say is that some of the vile invective written about Wayne Rooney or David Beckham over the years could never have been written about people from some sort of minority - papers like the Standard and broadsheets have been guilty of appalling discrimination, basically labelling people as 'white trash' when they're white males from a working class background - there is a double standard here - but though PC has gone too far with gender imho, there has been serious racist stuff at football grounds not just on social media and these tw*ts should not have freedom of speech - they need to shut up and not be allowed to offend and cause aggravation. the series on Jade Goody's exploitation has been interesting - the real scum there were the journalists and producers who exploited her, be good if some of these people were prosecuted for hate crimes.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 09 Sep 19 12.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

the only thing I'd say is that some of the vile invective written about Wayne Rooney or David Beckham over the years could never have been written about people from some sort of minority - papers like the Standard and broadsheets have been guilty of appalling discrimination, basically labelling people as 'white trash' when they're white males from a working class background - there is a double standard here - but though PC has gone too far with gender imho, there has been serious racist stuff at football grounds not just on social media and these tw*ts should not have freedom of speech - they need to shut up and not be allowed to offend and cause aggravation. the series on Jade Goody's exploitation has been interesting - the real scum there were the journalists and producers who exploited her, be good if some of these people were prosecuted for hate crimes.

I think I'd agree with you on the abuses of press and your criticism of nasty comments from crowds or individuals within them.....but not on your desire to force a change.

I think the context matters and while I think some sort of action is justified on extreme situations I regard the whole area as extremely problematical for liberty.

Recent changes and the creation of 'hate speech' laws have taken away our reputation for being as free a society around the world as our past reputation was.

 

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