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December 15 2019 4.56am

Communism

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 08 Sep 19 11.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

At a communist meeting :
1st communist to another
'Comrade would you give your house to help another comrade?'.
He replies
'Yes comrade of course'
1st comrade asks again
'And comrade would you give your car to help another comrade?'
He replies
'Yes comrade of course'.
1st comrade then asks
'And comrade would you give your shirt to help another comrade?'
He replies, 'no I would not'.
1st comrade is shocked and asks why not.
1st comrade replies.
'Because I have a shirt'.

'I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.'
(Thomas Sowell)

'The goal of socialism is communism'. (Lenin)

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2019 11.26pm)

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 09 Sep 19 1.06am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

is Jeremy Corbyn a National-Socialist ?

- denial of free speech? check
- intolerance of differences of opinion ? check
- friend of IRA ? check
- lack of respect for democracy ? check

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford.....Raptors on the Road

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 09 Sep 19 1.15am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

is Jeremy Corbyn a National-Socialist ?

- denial of free speech? check
- intolerance of differences of opinion ? check
- friend of IRA ? check
- lack of respect for democracy ? check


I agree with the socialist aspects but he isn't a nationalist.......National Socialism was in that order....Authoritarian nationalism with socialist policies tacked on.....which is why it's a form of fascism.

I'd say Corbyn is a Marxist whose willing to implement socialism in the hope of taking it further on later.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 09 Sep 19 8.15am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

As a theory Communism sounds harmless and benign. "Each according to his needs".

In practice of course this means that those who have wealth are required to give it up to the state so it can be reallocated to the poor.

What do you do if the wealthy refuse to do this voluntarily?

Therein lies the problem.

The next issue is that if the individual owns nothing as it belongs to the state then productivity declines significantly.

There is no incentive for an individual to work hard and efficiently as it only benefits the state and not them. We are by nature selfish and want to do well for ourselves and our family.

In Cuba they have a saying "They (the state) pretend to pay us and we pretend to work."

One thing I do agree with the communists is that they have a more equal society. Yup most people are dirt poor.

Edited by Badger11 (09 Sep 2019 8.16am)

 


One more point

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 09 Sep 19 12.21pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Don't think you can slide a credit card between the two ideologies.

Both require collectivism and a totalitarian/dictatorial central government. Nazism was a socialist movement anyway, the clue is in the name.

It baffles me that we now have mainstream talking heads advocating for full on Communism when we have had tens of millions of more people murdered due to this than even Hitler could achieve. These people should be ostracised / lampooned in civil society. The hammer and sickle should be viewed exactly like the swastika but we have Corbyn standing alongside it and people wearing t-shirts.


Seems we won't learn from history until it's too late.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Sep 19 12.52pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Don't think you can slide a credit card between the two ideologies.

Both require collectivism and a totalitarian/dictatorial central government. Nazism was a socialist movement anyway, the clue is in the name.

It baffles me that we now have mainstream talking heads advocating for full on Communism when we have had tens of millions of more people murdered due to this than even Hitler could achieve. These people should be ostracised / lampooned in civil society. The hammer and sickle should be viewed exactly like the swastika but we have Corbyn standing alongside it and people wearing t-shirts.


Seems we won't learn from history until it's too late.

Historically The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels was written for highly industrialised countries. The two examples used were Britain and Germany. There were millionaire factory owners, financiers and bankers whilst the conditions for the poor were likened to hell. Tenements where perhaps eighty or more people would live in one house were the norm. There wasn't necessarily toilets or running water. In that case had the millions been taken from the richest then it was likely to be better for everyone.
Russia and China were peasant countries with the odd large farmer and small aristocracies. Distribute the wealth and everyone is poor - as we pretty much saw happen.
Someone above mentions 'what about when the rich don't want to share their wealth'. Marx and Engels clearly stated the poor would become class conscious and take by force - as we saw in Russia and China.
I suppose the interesting part of communism is what would it be like in a rich country? If everyone were well off, who would bother working anymore? There is enough money in the UK for every person to be a millionaire, yet if everyone were a millionaire what would be the point? Some interesting conundrums.
Although Corbyn may be a bit of a loony lefty, I don't quite think that Labour is some kind of Communist party. Champagne socialism and liberal guilt, along with a hatred of Israel seem to keep them going.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 09 Sep 19 1.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

We don't need communism we need automation.

We never needed communism, though some aspects of socialism have been better for civilized societies....in health, pensions and education for example.

With the coming automation we have populations that have been expanded far more than we need.....and it's going to be interesting what happens there.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 09 Sep 19 2.02pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Historically The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels was written for highly industrialised countries. The two examples used were Britain and Germany. There were millionaire factory owners, financiers and bankers whilst the conditions for the poor were likened to hell. Tenements where perhaps eighty or more people would live in one house were the norm. There wasn't necessarily toilets or running water. In that case had the millions been taken from the richest then it was likely to be better for everyone.
Russia and China were peasant countries with the odd large farmer and small aristocracies. Distribute the wealth and everyone is poor - as we pretty much saw happen.
Someone above mentions 'what about when the rich don't want to share their wealth'. Marx and Engels clearly stated the poor would become class conscious and take by force - as we saw in Russia and China.
I suppose the interesting part of communism is what would it be like in a rich country? If everyone were well off, who would bother working anymore? There is enough money in the UK for every person to be a millionaire, yet if everyone were a millionaire what would be the point? Some interesting conundrums.
Although Corbyn may be a bit of a loony lefty, I don't quite think that Labour is some kind of Communist party. Champagne socialism and liberal guilt, along with a hatred of Israel seem to keep them going.

It's not corbyn who is the issue.
It's his underlings who are the proper loonoes
McDonald and his crew.
JC will be on his ear within 8 months if labour get in at the moment.
Then the real fun will start.
If you think getting poorer is fun that is!

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 09 Sep 19 2.56pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC
There is enough money in the UK for every person to be a millionaire

What do you think happens to those with significant resources that appose this massive re-distribution of wealth? (all of them). Those that can afford to move to anywhere in the world at the drop of a hat, have their assets hidden offshore and the means to avoid scrutiny. Why would the rest of us middle earners bust a ball to pay for everyone else? WE would give up and where this leads should be obvious. It's happened in every communist country everywhere.

Don't forget we are already 1.8 trillion in debt and growing. Labour would also push for open borders (quoting the UN compact on migration as a mandate - signed by the Tories). Pretty soon the welfare state would collapse causing panic and civil unrest.

Not withstanding all this what do you think would happen if we elect a party backed by Momentum types? I could only hope that the generals would have the sense to intervene sooner father than later (i.e. before they get purged).

 

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Deleted 09 Sep 19 6.16pm

I'm sort of in agreement with the attitudes to socialism/communism, but, if you take Marx's criticisms of the capitalist ideology, he's pretty much spot on.
I think a type of communism will come into effect at some point, probably in the next 200 to 300 years, when automation really comes into play. I think by that point, if technology is really advanced we will probably all be downloaded onto a hard drive and will be able to move from robot to robot. Radical, I suppose, but this stuff is already happening.

The obvious problem with 'socialism', is that it is always linked to communism, hence the bad press, but I don't think many would complain about having an NHS and to be fair, there is more hysteria around 'democracy' than the doubling of our debt in a few months by gifting the banks their bailouts.

I think my main issue with the current system is this; If I've made 100m in this country, then I should be expected to pay my country's % share of tax, because, this country has put everything in place for me to at least succeed. Would James Dyson have been able to create his vacuums in North Korea? No, so pay your taxes. We can talk about how those taxes are spent, but to have a society where you pay less tax the wealthier you are is a bit backwards.

I'm neither for or against capitalism or socialism, I would prefer a decent conversion about policies could be had in the public and parliamentary environments instead of the Oxbridge debating teams winding all of us up.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 09 Sep 19 6.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Jway89

I'm sort of in agreement with the attitudes to socialism/communism, but, if you take Marx's criticisms of the capitalist ideology, he's pretty much spot on.
I think a type of communism will come into effect at some point, probably in the next 200 to 300 years, when automation really comes into play. I think by that point, if technology is really advanced we will probably all be downloaded onto a hard drive and will be able to move from robot to robot. Radical, I suppose, but this stuff is already happening.

The obvious problem with 'socialism', is that it is always linked to communism, hence the bad press, but I don't think many would complain about having an NHS and to be fair, there is more hysteria around 'democracy' than the doubling of our debt in a few months by gifting the banks their bailouts.

I think my main issue with the current system is this; If I've made 100m in this country, then I should be expected to pay my country's % share of tax, because, this country has put everything in place for me to at least succeed. Would James Dyson have been able to create his vacuums in North Korea? No, so pay your taxes. We can talk about how those taxes are spent, but to have a society where you pay less tax the wealthier you are is a bit backwards.

I'm neither for or against capitalism or socialism, I would prefer a decent conversion about policies could be had in the public and parliamentary environments instead of the Oxbridge debating teams winding all of us up.

Good post.

Marx and Engels were good at pointing out the flaws but not so clever with predictions and pretty light on solutions.

I also think communism or some sort of mixed system will arise due to the effects of automation.....mind you nuclear wars could make that all still more hard to predict.....but I think the old models of all our current systems don't quite fit the world of the future ......Perhaps a lot sooner than 200-300 years though.

Personally I'm convinced that the US will be practically socialist within 10 years.....and probably in self conflict within twenty.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Sep 2019 6.27pm)

 

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Deleted 09 Sep 19 6.30pm

Haha.
Didn't want to go down the 'we could all be dead in 10 years because of nuclear war' route. I try to be optimistic.

The US is going to be interesting for sure. The BRICS are buying up gold left right and center and getting rid of US Bonds (Mainly China). If we get to a point where we go off the $ as the global currency and they don't have a different solution they can use to control the World then nuclear war will be here sooner than we think.

I do agree that the old 70s socialist ideas should stay there. Maybe there are a few that could still be implemented, but we need new ideas.

 

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