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September 23 2020 8.54pm

Calling any lefty economists ...

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 24 May 20 4.43pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

I'm cr*p at economics and grown up stuff to do with property, capital and regulations. However, I was wondering once the economic slump really hits home and the govt has to keep us all going if there is a possibility of doing a simple, at-a-stroke, legal change to do with property that would release masses of people from debt (based on mortgages and rent) and leave an owner class unable to rake in all the money that creates the hole that most of us mugs have to fill. The sensible talk is that there are two options: keep the rich rich by paying for the lockdown with printing money and borrowing, or get the rich to cough up by restructuring the tax system. But can any of you with a better grasp of these things than me explain what would happen if they, for example, turned all land from private property to common land, like in the days before enclosure. Travellers aren't allowed to settle because there is no common land - the consequences could cause some major economic collapse, but would they? Our economy is just a series of managed property bubbles, it's why not enough houses are built, it would deflate prices. I just want to know the dynamics - is there a way, by disallowing money owed to lenders and owners through a reclassification of property, we could lower everybody's need to earn to pay for their property, and the main losers would just be small sector who are already economically secure. I realise there could be some dramatic destructive domino effect to do with banks and lenders, but is there a way of changing property rights that might damage the 'debt engine' but help the majority. I might be better off on another forum, but I've read enough on here to see some posters might have a constructive suggestion.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 24 May 20 4.46pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I'm cr*p at economics and grown up stuff to do with property, capital and regulations. However, I was wondering once the economic slump really hits home and the govt has to keep us all going if there is a possibility of doing a simple, at-a-stroke, legal change to do with property that would release masses of people from debt (based on mortgages and rent) and leave an owner class unable to rake in all the money that creates the hole that most of us mugs have to fill. The sensible talk is that there are two options: keep the rich rich by paying for the lockdown with printing money and borrowing, or get the rich to cough up by restructuring the tax system. But can any of you with a better grasp of these things than me explain what would happen if they, for example, turned all land from private property to common land, like in the days before enclosure. Travellers aren't allowed to settle because there is no common land - the consequences could cause some major economic collapse, but would they? Our economy is just a series of managed property bubbles, it's why not enough houses are built, it would deflate prices. I just want to know the dynamics - is there a way, by disallowing money owed to lenders and owners through a reclassification of property, we could lower everybody's need to earn to pay for their property, and the main losers would just be small sector who are already economically secure. I realise there could be some dramatic destructive domino effect to do with banks and lenders, but is there a way of changing property rights that might damage the 'debt engine' but help the majority. I might be better off on another forum, but I've read enough on here to see some posters might have a constructive suggestion.

No

 

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View Tom-the-eagle's Profile Tom-the-eagle Online Flag Croydon 24 May 20 4.59pm Send a Private Message to Tom-the-eagle Add Tom-the-eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I'm cr*p at economics and grown up stuff to do with property, capital and regulations. However, I was wondering once the economic slump really hits home and the govt has to keep us all going if there is a possibility of doing a simple, at-a-stroke, legal change to do with property that would release masses of people from debt (based on mortgages and rent) and leave an owner class unable to rake in all the money that creates the hole that most of us mugs have to fill. The sensible talk is that there are two options: keep the rich rich by paying for the lockdown with printing money and borrowing, or get the rich to cough up by restructuring the tax system. But can any of you with a better grasp of these things than me explain what would happen if they, for example, turned all land from private property to common land, like in the days before enclosure. Travellers aren't allowed to settle because there is no common land - the consequences could cause some major economic collapse, but would they? Our economy is just a series of managed property bubbles, it's why not enough houses are built, it would deflate prices. I just want to know the dynamics - is there a way, by disallowing money owed to lenders and owners through a reclassification of property, we could lower everybody's need to earn to pay for their property, and the main losers would just be small sector who are already economically secure. I realise there could be some dramatic destructive domino effect to do with banks and lenders, but is there a way of changing property rights that might damage the 'debt engine' but help the majority. I might be better off on another forum, but I've read enough on here to see some posters might have a constructive suggestion.


What are you smoking?

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 24 May 20 6.35pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

What are you smoking?

Same as usual probably

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 24 May 20 6.45pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle


What are you smoking?

I think he means we all become financially equal so dip your hand in a pot and pull out a wad and away you go. I've heard of parties like that but with car keys. Difference being you take yours home after. The car as well

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 24 May 20 8.37pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

I asked for lefty economists not right wing w*nkers And as for the other question it's definitely not skunk, I'm just high on life. I'm not trying to write a new communist manifesto, but if there was a simple change to property law which made a lot of the property bureaucracy (estate agents, mortgage brokers, related lawyers, surveyors) redundant, meant the propertied rich got less rich but were still rich, and also meant wage slaves had to pay much less to keep a roof over their head I'd like to know what it is. I'd also like to know what the downside consequences would be, and if there was a realistic way of lessening them to overall satisfaction. Power to the people (except for Brexit)!

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 24 May 20 8.49pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I asked for lefty economists not right wing w*nkers And as for the other question it's definitely not skunk, I'm just high on life. I'm not trying to write a new communist manifesto, but if there was a simple change to property law which made a lot of the property bureaucracy (estate agents, mortgage brokers, related lawyers, surveyors) redundant, meant the propertied rich got less rich but were still rich, and also meant wage slaves had to pay much less to keep a roof over their head I'd like to know what it is. I'd also like to know what the downside consequences would be, and if there was a realistic way of lessening them to overall satisfaction. Power to the people (except for Brexit)!

This idea like communism is based on the concept that some people will have to give up their wealth for the greater good. Many of us are NIMBYS as long as the other fellow is paying more tax it's fine by me when it's me hang on a minute...

So what do you do when those who would lose out refuse to accept it, this inevitably leads to violence and in turn oppression by the state for the greater good.

Far better to have a tax system that ensures most people pay a reasonable amount of tax. I don't understand why the very rich are not in a special tax bracket with a minimum tax threshold so they can have the cleverest accountants in the world but at the very least they must pay the taxman X or greater if applicable.

The very rich will get no sympathy from the public if they complain they have to pay a fair minimum whatever that amount is.

 


One more point

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 24 May 20 9.03pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I asked for lefty economists not right wing w*nkers And as for the other question it's definitely not skunk, I'm just high on life. I'm not trying to write a new communist manifesto, but if there was a simple change to property law which made a lot of the property bureaucracy (estate agents, mortgage brokers, related lawyers, surveyors) redundant, meant the propertied rich got less rich but were still rich, and also meant wage slaves had to pay much less to keep a roof over their head I'd like to know what it is. I'd also like to know what the downside consequences would be, and if there was a realistic way of lessening them to overall satisfaction. Power to the people (except for Brexit)!

The idea that all property is theft is literally communism.

As a young man I was heavily attracted to this idea because there is an inherent fairness about it. However, I never become a communist because the importance of supporting meritocracy was so obvious to me. Still, only a fool denies the powerful arguments and criticisms that Marx and Engels had concerning capitalism....they just had no realistic answers. And hundreds of millions of people died proving that.

It's fundamental failing is that it exerts ideology over human nature.....I see the left making the same mistake today.

The property owning class are essential to capitalism. The problems of housing are very real and it's a damning summary on governments of the last half century which deserves regular scorn....But that's not only the lack of social and normal house building but also the increase in population without the infrastructure to support it.

All short term easy methods to improve GDP which long term suck the blood from and worsen the future.

 

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View Tom-the-eagle's Profile Tom-the-eagle Online Flag Croydon 24 May 20 10.07pm Send a Private Message to Tom-the-eagle Add Tom-the-eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

I asked for lefty economists not right wing w*nkers And as for the other question it's definitely not skunk, I'm just high on life. I'm not trying to write a new communist manifesto, but if there was a simple change to property law which made a lot of the property bureaucracy (estate agents, mortgage brokers, related lawyers, surveyors) redundant, meant the propertied rich got less rich but were still rich, and also meant wage slaves had to pay much less to keep a roof over their head I'd like to know what it is. I'd also like to know what the downside consequences would be, and if there was a realistic way of lessening them to overall satisfaction. Power to the people (except for Brexit)!


Mortgage Brokers, Surveyors, Lawyers and Estate agents donít keep people poor, they are just cogs in an antiquated process.

Thereís only one reason why property is so expensive, supply and demand.

You can call me a right wing w&nker if you wish but the absolute truth is that exponential house price rises coincide directly with our open door immigration policy.

Wish it didnít as we already have tens of thousands of pages in here covering immigration, however thatís the truth. The more people who live here, the more property is worth. Simple logistics.


 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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View the.universal's Profile the.universal 24 May 20 10.19pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Mortgage Brokers, Surveyors, Lawyers and Estate agents donít keep people poor, they are just cogs in an antiquated process.

Thereís only one reason why property is so expensive, supply and demand.

You can call me a right wing w&nker if you wish but the absolute truth is that exponential house price rises coincide directly with our open door immigration policy.

Wish it didnít as we already have tens of thousands of pages in here covering immigration, however thatís the truth. The more people who live here, the more property is worth. Simple logistics.

Rough numbers but net migration over last 20 years 200k, say 4m. Clearly thatís a lot of people but Ďonlyí represents 7% of UK population. In that time house prices roughly tripled. So it doesnít seem immigration answers all the growth.

My view is people living longer + smaller household sizes and also more women earning proper wages all contribute. My feeling is the latter is a big driver of the increase.

Ps, youíre a right wing w&nker :0)

 


Vive le Roy!

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 24 May 20 10.21pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

The notion of 'Universal Property Rights' is one of the founding principles of Western civilisation. Essentially if a recognized state acknowledge your ownership of a piece of land and that is then recorded through a publicly accessible record then any nation state that attempted to rescind that becomes an outcast state and its economy would be fundamentally weakened. Because why would anybody then want to invest if the state could just step in and remove it?

What your left-wing economist would do is seek to essentially dilute that ownership through a land tax or similar. Or make capital gains tax payable on ALL profits or tax rental income at say 75%. They could also introduce rent caps along with altering tenancy laws and so on. And mess about with inheritance laws and regulations, throwing together a pick & mix a variety of all of the above along with tougher licensing and so on.

 

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View Tom-the-eagle's Profile Tom-the-eagle Online Flag Croydon 24 May 20 10.28pm Send a Private Message to Tom-the-eagle Add Tom-the-eagle as a friend

Originally posted by the.universal

Rough numbers but net migration over last 20 years 200k, say 4m. Clearly thatís a lot of people but Ďonlyí represents 7% of UK population. In that time house prices roughly tripled. So it doesnít seem immigration answers all the growth.

My view is people living longer + smaller household sizes and also more women earning proper wages all contribute. My feeling is the latter is a big driver of the increase.

Ps, youíre a right wing w&nker :0)

Iíd agree with all the above. Last sentence particularly.

I believe these to all be factors which add to the demand. Whilst Iím not disagreeing with you regarding your figures on immigration, I am dubious. In some parts of London itís as if every other person has arrived in the last 20 years and the white working class have all left.

Half my tenants are Eastern European.

As for your sentence regarding women now earning proper wages, well we should never have given them the f@cking vote

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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