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December 3 2020 6.50am

BJ and Cummings and Government

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Nov 20 6.17pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

In the interests of HOL, let's not turn this into a "WE Thread". We all remember those dastardly "Willo threads" which resulted in me receiving a 'Yellow' for being an "Attention seeker" etc etc. Discussions which disintegrated into acrimony and ordure.

Returning to Cummings, I applaud him for the part he played in the 'Vote Leave' and the 'General Election' campaigns.He is a brilliant campaigner.

In terms of the Cabinet I do envisage a reshuffle at the beginning of the year.One hopes it is filled with the strongest ministers rather than those who are compliant towards the PM.There are some experienced Ex-Cabinet minsters on the backbenches who might well return.

Edited by Willo (16 Nov 2020 4.27pm)

That's decent of you, so thanks. I never joined in those threads as I thought them to be ridiculous. They were nasty, rather than just an attempt at a little bit of a p*ss take. Even you take it out of yourself sometimes with your convoluted word spaghetti.

Cummings being an effective campaigner is obvious but running a country isn't a campaign. The criticism that he has attracted seems, from all the circumstantial evidence, to be well justified. Johnson bears responsibility. He should never have continued with him. Let's hope we see some experience back in the government.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 16 Nov 20 6.44pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

In the interests of HOL, let's not turn this into a "WE Thread". We all remember those dastardly "Willo threads" which resulted in me receiving a 'Yellow' for being an "Attention seeker" etc etc. Discussions which disintegrated into acrimony and ordure.

Returning to Cummings, I applaud him for the part he played in the 'Vote Leave' and the 'General Election' campaigns.He is a brilliant campaigner.

In terms of the Cabinet I do envisage a reshuffle at the beginning of the year.One hopes it is filled with the strongest ministers rather than those who are compliant towards the PM.There are some experienced Ex-Cabinet minsters on the backbenches who might well return.

Edited by Willo (16 Nov 2020 4.27pm)

So long as Michael Gove is around everything will be fine.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Nov 20 6.48pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

How do you know that?

You are assuming that Cummings used Boris as a puppet but you can't possibly know that.

Boris is a big picture man (one of his strengths and faults) he might say to Cummings we need to reform the Civil Service give me some ideas. Cummings comes up with a shopping list and Boris picks what he likes from that, I see nothing wrong in that nor does it conflict with our democracy.

You are assuming that rather than Boris asking for ideas Cummings tells him what to do.

There is plenty of evidence, albeit circumstantial, The reaction of many MPs, including some ministers. The way he treats civil servants. The reports from the political correspondents.

It isn't just Cummings. It's the basic idea of anyone in government having political "advisers". There are civil servants, who we pay to provide specialist advice. They outlast individual governments so provide continuity as well as experience. Advisers are fine in central offices helping analyse public perceptions and designing campaign strategies. They just don't sit well within a representative democracy.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 16 Nov 20 6.54pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by the.universal

Heres a mind bending stat for you. Average age of coronavirus victims in the UK 82.4 years. Average life expectancy in UK = 81.5.

Id say this presents a clear case for not needing lockdowns at all, and especially not lockdown 2.0.

Were spending hundreds and hundreds of billions to prop up people who are going to die of something else very soon anyway. A controversial view no doubt, but its backed up by the stat above.

Ah, so all the dead were already zombies. That's nice to know.

Pray tell, which school taught you maths?

UK modal age on death is 86 for men and 89 for women.

The average, surprise surprise, includes for example neonatal deaths which have always been high. 2.8 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Mean age of deaths caused by COVID-19 for men is 78.7 and for women 82.5. Don't believe the Times

[Link]

So how much is 7 years of life worth?

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Nov 20 7.00pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Someone on here once said that arguing with WE is like arguing with porridge.

Did he mean that his arguments were constantly shifting with no firmness? I'm not truly sure.....maybe he just didn't like porridge.

Regardless, after being on here for ages I can certainly say that that poster certainly knew his oats.

I don't remember that but the analogy doesn't really work does it?

Porridge is stiff, starchy and difficult to stir. There are many here who better fit that description than me.

I am much more like Cornflakes. Crisp, bright and ready to serve.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 16 Nov 20 7.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I don't remember that but the analogy doesn't really work does it?

Porridge is stiff, starchy and difficult to stir. There are many here who better fit that description than me.

I am much more like Cornflakes. Crisp, bright and ready to serve.

No it doesn't, but it did stick in the old memory banks.....Cornflakes eh....quite nice with ice cold milk.

Cornflakes
Cornwall
Corny

I suppose it makes sense on some level.

I must admit I prefer oat based stuff nowadays.

 


'I can't stand innuendo. If I see one in a script I whip it out immediately.' (Kenneth Williams)

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Nov 20 7.15pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is plenty of evidence, albeit circumstantial, The reaction of many MPs, including some ministers. The way he treats civil servants. The reports from the political correspondents.

It isn't just Cummings. It's the basic idea of anyone in government having political "advisers". There are civil servants, who we pay to provide specialist advice. They outlast individual governments so provide continuity as well as experience. Advisers are fine in central offices helping analyse public perceptions and designing campaign strategies. They just don't sit well within a representative democracy.

Civil Servants are not elected if they were you would have a point just like advisors they are appointed.

The Civil Service needs a structural reform it doesn't mean that there aren't good people in it just that its top down structure has to change to reflect the complexities of today's world.

For example if you embark on a new town you would need probably half a dozen different departments involved from Housing to environment, education, health etc. Each of these departments have their own priorities and will fight their own corner the people on that project owe allegiance to their department heads which is where they will return once the project is over.

What Cummings wanted to do is to change that structure so rather than top town you have lateral bubbles or groups of expertise and those people would be responsible to the management of that project rather than to their own departmental heads.

I can't see anybody in the Civil Service volunteering a plan to radically reshape it there are too many empires politics is all about fighting for your departmental budget.

As for politicians having advisors why not. A politician should have at least one person who is on their side.

You idea is idealistic but not realistic.

 


One more point

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 16 Nov 20 7.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Ah, so all the dead were already zombies. That's nice to know.

Pray tell, which school taught you maths?

UK modal age on death is 86 for men and 89 for women.

The average, surprise surprise, includes for example neonatal deaths which have always been high. 2.8 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Mean age of deaths caused by COVID-19 for men is 78.7 and for women 82.5. Don't believe the Times

[Link]

So how much is 7 years of life worth?


Doesn't really change his point though.

Wrecking an economy and civil liberties for a flu without a vaccine with an average death age near life expectancy is irrational.

 


'I can't stand innuendo. If I see one in a script I whip it out immediately.' (Kenneth Williams)

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View Tim Gypsy Hill '64's Profile Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Flag Stoke sub normal 16 Nov 20 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Add Tim Gypsy Hill '64 as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Indeed, I believe it is termed "paralysis through analysis". I get all of the other posters points about being caring, or letting people die through herd immunity.
The worry is, once the ill and elderly die, the virus spread is likely to be unchecked through asymptomatic (young) persons, and then the real risk of the virus mutating to impact the younger, fitter populace.
While people are still being slightly reckless (such as BJ and Cummings and a lot of other idiots), it puts all of the population at increased risk.
Interesting to note Scottish Teaching Unions are being balloted to see if teaching staff feel the risk of working with young asymptomatic people is 'acceptable' for a return to work.

That is not how a virus mutates. In fact, what a virus wants is a host that can stay alive. What makes a virus mutate is lack of hosts, either due to vaccinations or, as has been attempted, lack of available transmission. You appear to make the assumtion that the virus wants to kill the host, when in fact, all it does is try to reproduce. Just like every other living thing that ever existed. It is as entitled to be on this planet as you or me.

edit: apologies, this is off topic.

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (16 Nov 2020 7.28pm)

 


Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 16 Nov 20 7.33pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's decent of you, so thanks. I never joined in those threads as I thought them to be ridiculous. They were nasty, rather than just an attempt at a little bit of a p*ss take. Even you take it out of yourself sometimes with your convoluted word spaghetti.

Cummings being an effective campaigner is obvious but running a country isn't a campaign. The criticism that he has attracted seems, from all the circumstantial evidence, to be well justified. Johnson bears responsibility. He should never have continued with him. Let's hope we see some experience back in the government.

Convaluted,if that isnt the pot etc.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 16 Nov 20 8.02pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Gargantuan chortles in the Willo abode.

Alas I don't resemble Jimmy Edwards of "Whack-O!" fame!

Edited by Willo (16 Nov 2020 12.04pm)

Bend over Wendover!

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 16 Nov 20 8.06pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Is this what they call left wing humour? Mix a bit of agism, sprinkle in a bit of anti white.....oh look I've made a funny.

I had to check I hadn't broken a rib through all the laughing I hadn't done.

Still, if it makes you happy.


Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Nov 2020 12.39pm)

Total humour fail Stirling. Check up the thread. Willo enjoyed it. Why cant you?

 

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