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Hrolf The Ganger 18 Apr 23 1.41pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech. I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics. The post-Brexit trading relationship between the UK and EU, as set out in the ‘Trade and Cooperation Agreement’ (TCA) that came into effect on 1 January 2021, will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU. This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it? There are other, worse, predictions. This is The Financial Times Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance. They agree that the vote to leave the bloc has made households poorer, that negotiating uncertainties have taken their toll on business investment and that new barriers to trade have damaged economic links between the UK and EU. While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large. They also agree that new trade agreements with countries such as Australia and regulatory freedoms gained from leaving the bloc do not come close to offsetting the damage. Oh please. Economic forecasts are like arseholes. Everyone seems to have one and they stink. I believe in reality, not predictions by those with appalling track records of accuracy.
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Hrolf The Ganger

18 Apr 23 1.41pm

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Originally posted by Mapletree

Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech.

I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics.

The post-Brexit trading relationship between the UK and EU, as set out in the ‘Trade and Cooperation Agreement’ (TCA) that came into effect on 1 January 2021, will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU.

This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it?

There are other, worse, predictions.

This is The Financial Times

Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance.

They agree that the vote to leave the bloc has made households poorer, that negotiating uncertainties have taken their toll on business investment and that new barriers to trade have damaged economic links between the UK and EU.

While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large. They also agree that new trade agreements with countries such as Australia and regulatory freedoms gained from leaving the bloc do not come close to offsetting the damage.

Oh please. Economic forecasts are like arseholes. Everyone seems to have one and they stink.

I believe in reality, not predictions by those with appalling track records of accuracy.

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steeleye20 Croydon 18 Apr 23 2.38pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech. I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics. The post-Brexit trading relationship between the UK and EU, as set out in the ‘Trade and Cooperation Agreement’ (TCA) that came into effect on 1 January 2021, will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU. This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it? There are other, worse, predictions. This is The Financial Times Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance. They agree that the vote to leave the bloc has made households poorer, that negotiating uncertainties have taken their toll on business investment and that new barriers to trade have damaged economic links between the UK and EU. While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large. They also agree that new trade agreements with countries such as Australia and regulatory freedoms gained from leaving the bloc do not come close to offsetting the damage. It's a pretty awful picture generally, add in the loss of investment from companies coming here to take advantage of the single market, and all the queuing the bureaucracy the complete hassle over EU trade and travelling etc. etc. We cannot magic these things away, the loss of economic growth etc. because Johnson negotiated a fat-head hard brexit deal leaving us no scope to do so, its only going to get worse. It would take a bold politician, a statesman like Ted Heath, to re-join. But it could also be an election winner.
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steeleye20

Croydon 18 Apr 23 2.38pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech.

I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics.

This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it?

There are other, worse, predictions.

This is The Financial Times

Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance.

It's a pretty awful picture generally, add in the loss of investment from companies coming here to take advantage of the single market, and all the queuing the bureaucracy the complete hassle over EU trade and travelling etc. etc.

We cannot magic these things away, the loss of economic growth etc. because Johnson negotiated a fat-head hard brexit deal leaving us no scope to do so, its only going to get worse.

It would take a bold politician, a statesman like Ted Heath, to re-join.

But it could also be an election winner.

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georgenorman 18 Apr 23 2.38pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech. I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics. The post-Brexit trading relationship between the UK and EU, as set out in the ‘Trade and Cooperation Agreement’ (TCA) that came into effect on 1 January 2021, will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU. This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it? There are other, worse, predictions. This is The Financial Times Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance. They agree that the vote to leave the bloc has made households poorer, that negotiating uncertainties have taken their toll on business investment and that new barriers to trade have damaged economic links between the UK and EU. While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large. They also agree that new trade agreements with countries such as Australia and regulatory freedoms gained from leaving the bloc do not come close to offsetting the damage. You of course ignore the £13-£17 billion a year we save in not contributing to the EU so called budget, along with the savings in not having to deal with unlimited immigration from Europe.
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georgenorman

18 Apr 23 2.38pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech.

I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics.

This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it?

There are other, worse, predictions.

This is The Financial Times

Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance.

You of course ignore the £13-£17 billion a year we save in not contributing to the EU so called budget, along with the savings in not having to deal with unlimited immigration from Europe.

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Badger11 Beckenham 18 Apr 23 2.52pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech. I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics. The post-Brexit trading relationship between the UK and EU, as set out in the ‘Trade and Cooperation Agreement’ (TCA) that came into effect on 1 January 2021, will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU. This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it? There are other, worse, predictions. This is The Financial Times Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance. They agree that the vote to leave the bloc has made households poorer, that negotiating uncertainties have taken their toll on business investment and that new barriers to trade have damaged economic links between the UK and EU. While economists and officials do not agree on the precise magnitude of the Brexit effect, they consider it to be large. They also agree that new trade agreements with countries such as Australia and regulatory freedoms gained from leaving the bloc do not come close to offsetting the damage. Funny you should mention that I have just come back from one in Uzbekistan. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 18 Apr 23 2.52pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Oh for goodness sake. Do you live in a yurt? Or Wisbech? Or a yurt in Wisbech.

I know full well that the issue is relative, as would you were you to have been educated in economics.

This is the OBR, are you in a position to argue with it?

There are other, worse, predictions.

This is The Financial Times

Almost two years after Britain left the EU, economists have reached a consensus: Brexit has significantly worsened the country’s economic performance.

Funny you should mention that I have just come back from one in Uzbekistan.

One more point

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 18 Apr 23 4.10pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Read the links! It’s all there. I bloody live in the EU and im telling you price rises here are at least as bad as in the UK including Cornwall
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 18 Apr 23 4.10pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Read the links!

It’s all there.

I bloody live in the EU and im telling you price rises here are at least as bad as in the UK including Cornwall

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footythoughts Beckenham 18 Apr 23 7.43pm
Originally posted by georgenorman You of course ignore the £13-£17 billion a year we save in not contributing to the EU so called budget, along with the savings in not having to deal with unlimited immigration from Europe. I voted for Brexit and its clearly not gone well. In fact, it's pretty much gone how i'd expected but not hoped. Shifting control from Europe to a more local rogues gallery doesn't necessary result in a better outcome. All it's done is effectively hinder moves and housing opportunities abroad for those who want that option, while not doing the same in the opposite direction due to ramped up, entirely optional may I add, immigration from non EU countries. If we carved out a specific financial and trade niche that took advantage of our proximity to EU countries but exit from it, there was and still is a chance Brexit could work, but that was always going to be a difficult needle to thread and it's pretty obvious no-one on our political landscape has any interest in that anyway. The principle of a country dictating its own rules and laws is a perfectly sensible one, but it still ultimately relies on government making good decisions (and the union they left making bad). That isn't happening. As we can't really say where the needle will move on either of those, it's all a coin toss anyway, with the only perceivable plus point so far being "I'm elated about brexit because you aren't" at poliical opposites. Yeah, great.
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footythoughts

Beckenham 18 Apr 23 7.43pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

You of course ignore the £13-£17 billion a year we save in not contributing to the EU so called budget, along with the savings in not having to deal with unlimited immigration from Europe.

I voted for Brexit and its clearly not gone well. In fact, it's pretty much gone how i'd expected but not hoped. Shifting control from Europe to a more local rogues gallery doesn't necessary result in a better outcome. All it's done is effectively hinder moves and housing opportunities abroad for those who want that option, while not doing the same in the opposite direction due to ramped up, entirely optional may I add, immigration from non EU countries.

If we carved out a specific financial and trade niche that took advantage of our proximity to EU countries but exit from it, there was and still is a chance Brexit could work, but that was always going to be a difficult needle to thread and it's pretty obvious no-one on our political landscape has any interest in that anyway. The principle of a country dictating its own rules and laws is a perfectly sensible one, but it still ultimately relies on government making good decisions (and the union they left making bad). That isn't happening. As we can't really say where the needle will move on either of those, it's all a coin toss anyway, with the only perceivable plus point so far being "I'm elated about brexit because you aren't" at poliical opposites. Yeah, great.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Apr 23 8.04pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Really? That is not borne out by the facts. Considering that our economy is disproportionately service based, we have recovered very well from COVID compared to many others. Your doom mongering is wishful thinking. Immigration is an issue that must be tackled by the British government. The EU was useless. It amuses me that we supposedly have a labour shortage and yet the official unemployment figures are growing. We have an ever growing number of immigrants that supposedly pay tax and yet our infrastructure is crumbling. The NHS, The railways, the roads, the police all in crisis despite all those immigrants. It's almost like we are being sold a big lie. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Apr 2023 1.36pm) You were given the facts in the post above yours. You don't deal in facts. You deal in prejudices. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 18 Apr 23 8.04pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Really?

That is not borne out by the facts.
Considering that our economy is disproportionately service based, we have recovered very well from COVID compared to many others.

Your doom mongering is wishful thinking.

Immigration is an issue that must be tackled by the British government. The EU was useless.
It amuses me that we supposedly have a labour shortage and yet the official unemployment figures are growing.
We have an ever growing number of immigrants that supposedly pay tax and yet our infrastructure is crumbling. The NHS, The railways, the roads, the police all in crisis despite all those immigrants.

It's almost like we are being sold a big lie.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Apr 2023 1.36pm)

You were given the facts in the post above yours.

You don't deal in facts. You deal in prejudices.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Apr 23 8.11pm
Originally posted by the silurian I bloody live in the EU and im telling you price rises here are at least as bad as in the UK including Cornwall That's all covered, in detail, in the links. France is lower than the UK, Germany a little higher. Eastern European countries also a little higher. On average broadly the same. What you are personally witnessing is not a relevant sample. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 18 Apr 23 8.11pm

Originally posted by the silurian

I bloody live in the EU and im telling you price rises here are at least as bad as in the UK including Cornwall

That's all covered, in detail, in the links. France is lower than the UK, Germany a little higher. Eastern European countries also a little higher. On average broadly the same. What you are personally witnessing is not a relevant sample.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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footythoughts Beckenham 18 Apr 23 8.13pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Really? That is not borne out by the facts. Considering that our economy is disproportionately service based, we have recovered very well from COVID compared to many others. Your doom mongering is wishful thinking. Immigration is an issue that must be tackled by the British government. The EU was useless. It amuses me that we supposedly have a labour shortage and yet the official unemployment figures are growing. We have an ever growing number of immigrants that supposedly pay tax and yet our infrastructure is crumbling. The NHS, The railways, the roads, the police all in crisis despite all those immigrants. It's almost like we are being sold a big lie. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Apr 2023 1.36pm) Lack of investment, an ageing population, every major project known to man being a billion pound backhander instead of something designed to help the people. Whether immigration has been a help or hinderance is a factor - though clearly government think they're good for cheap labour -there's clearly a bit more to it than solely immigration. That said it's certainly an issue people should take input on, but this government nor any other in a two party system is likely to do so. Did you vote for PR back in the day or against? That would be a path to more representative governance, whether it's one I personally agree with or not.
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footythoughts

Beckenham 18 Apr 23 8.13pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Really?

That is not borne out by the facts.
Considering that our economy is disproportionately service based, we have recovered very well from COVID compared to many others.

Your doom mongering is wishful thinking.

It's almost like we are being sold a big lie.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Apr 2023 1.36pm)

Lack of investment, an ageing population, every major project known to man being a billion pound backhander instead of something designed to help the people. Whether immigration has been a help or hinderance is a factor - though clearly government think they're good for cheap labour -there's clearly a bit more to it than solely immigration. That said it's certainly an issue people should take input on, but this government nor any other in a two party system is likely to do so. Did you vote for PR back in the day or against? That would be a path to more representative governance, whether it's one I personally agree with or not.

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Teddy Eagle 18 Apr 23 8.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I disagree! I welcome it. I also think they will be more concerned about vote loss than “group think”, whatever that is. That there are some activists giving voice to concerns is nothing new and is always to be welcomed. Doesn’t mean their concerns should trump others, only that it’s better to hear them than not. Nor should those who disagree be disrespected but you don’t condemn a cause just because some go too far. For some strange reason transgender issues have become a vital factor in life so politicians are afraid to say anything which might be interpreted as critical. Even if that means stating biological facts.
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Teddy Eagle

18 Apr 23 8.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I disagree! I welcome it.

I also think they will be more concerned about vote loss than “group think”, whatever that is. That there are some activists giving voice to concerns is nothing new and is always to be welcomed. Doesn’t mean their concerns should trump others, only that it’s better to hear them than not. Nor should those who disagree be disrespected but you don’t condemn a cause just because some go too far.

For some strange reason transgender issues have become a vital factor in life so politicians are afraid to say anything which might be interpreted as critical. Even if that means stating biological facts.

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Teddy Eagle 18 Apr 23 8.41pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's all covered, in detail, in the links. France is lower than the UK, Germany a little higher. Eastern European countries also a little higher. On average broadly the same. What you are personally witnessing is not a relevant sample. If it's broadly the same, and worse in some countries, then how is Brexit to blame? Or is the claim that prices here would be lower than than the rest of Europe?
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Teddy Eagle

18 Apr 23 8.41pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If it's broadly the same, and worse in some countries, then how is Brexit to blame? Or is the claim that prices here would be lower than than the rest of Europe?

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footythoughts Beckenham 18 Apr 23 8.45pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle For some strange reason transgender issues have become a vital factor in life so politicians are afraid to say anything which might be interpreted as critical. Even if that means stating biological facts. I'm not sure that it's strange at all, it's a pointless intentionally inflated social divide that's stoked as way of distracting from issues that actually matter and impact people on on a wide scale. Poverty, wealth gap etc. Easier to set the plebs against each other than to have them concentrate on how their country has been run into the ground by governments who listen to wealth and power infinitely more than those who lend them their votes. Edited by footythoughts (18 Apr 2023 8.55pm)
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footythoughts

Beckenham 18 Apr 23 8.45pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

I'm not sure that it's strange at all, it's a pointless intentionally inflated social divide that's stoked as way of distracting from issues that actually matter and impact people on on a wide scale. Poverty, wealth gap etc. Easier to set the plebs against each other than to have them concentrate on how their country has been run into the ground by governments who listen to wealth and power infinitely more than those who lend them their votes.

Edited by footythoughts (18 Apr 2023 8.55pm)

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