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Is Pritis time up?

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 17 Jan 21 10.01am Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

1. Agreed then she should go if that was the case as she had intervened and made the wrong decision. Mistakes happen I am not actually blaming the individual who deleted the records unless it was deliberate.

2. This keeps coming up about Civil Servants not allowed to answer back. How is it any different from working for a private corporation. I worked for a bank we were not allowed to talk to the press without approval and if you did you were far more likely to be sacked I know someone this happened to.

If the CS has been treated unfairly they have recourse to law like anyone else which is why a senior CS is going to an industrial tribunal soon on another matter and the press will no doubt have a field day.

Agree on both points but the difference on point 2 is I would say that a large corporate would very publically chuck their staff under the bus as much as the government of the day (of all colours - this is not an anti tory statement) have started to do. A minister can breif the press that anything is actually not their fault and that it is all the fault of meddlesome civil servants yet civil servants can't actually get a platform to reply unless it is via trade unions.

I just don't see that as much in the private sector. Maybe another factor is that if a senior position comes up in a large corporate the jobholder can not immediately appoint their own pals without scrutiny.

Equally when the unions do bite back - as has recently happened say in a lot of work done to fight systematic bullying and discrimination of staff in the Palace of Westminster - it is rarely reported and if a public report offers an unfavourable report that say a minister has bullied staff. The PM simply ignores the findings.

As for use of a tribunal for redress. Yes you are right and it will be a very interesting few weeks.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 17 Jan 21 10.04am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

1. Agreed then she should go if that was the case as she had intervened and made the wrong decision. Mistakes happen I am not actually blaming the individual who deleted the records unless it was deliberate.

2. This keeps coming up about Civil Servants not allowed to answer back. How is it any different from working for a private corporation. I worked for a bank we were not allowed to talk to the press without approval and if you did you were far more likely to be sacked I know someone this happened to.

If the CS has been treated unfairly they have recourse to law like anyone else which is why a senior CS is going to an industrial tribunal soon on another matter and the press will no doubt have a field day.

Convention again. I worked in local government and we referred the media to the press office and then to comment by the relevant portfolio holder. Normal with public service. They take the credit and the blame. Or else they used to. Now only the former for central government it seems.

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 17 Jan 21 10.13am Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Agreed it was the convention, that doesn't mean it was right people need to be accountable for their decisions. They are happy to take the salary and the kudos that comes with the job. You say that CS are scapegoats how many actually are fired for bad decisions?

They always have recourse to law if they get treated unfairly.

Edited by Badger11 (17 Jan 2021 8.07am)

In my experience (as a senior civil servant of many years,) plenty of people are put through some sort of performance process that could lead to dismissal or if the situation merits it are simply dismissed every year.

In many cases for example computer misuse people are sacked on the spot. It is no longer the case that it was nigh on impossible that you could never be sacked from a civil service job.

What I don't get is if people genuinely believe all civil servants do is turn up late morning spend an afternoon down the pub, have a career rarely troubled by work or responsibility then retire on a hugh pension, why don't they apply for these jobs?

 

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View AuntyAnne70's Profile AuntyAnne70 Flag Tunbridge WElls 17 Jan 21 10.34am Send a Private Message to AuntyAnne70 Add AuntyAnne70 as a friend

Please stop talking sense.

Top (senior) civil servants are worth more to the country than MP's. They also do many more hours than what they are actually paid to do.

 

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View palace chick's Profile palace chick Flag South Croydon 17 Jan 21 10.42am Send a Private Message to palace chick Add palace chick as a friend

Am I missing something here (havenít read much about this, just what Iíve heard on the news) - if this information was on a data base isnít there a back up somewhere up in the cloud / server? Canít it be restored even if itís a day or so out?

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 17 Jan 21 11.04am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by AuntyAnne70

Please stop talking sense.

Top (senior) civil servants are worth more to the country than MP's. They also do many more hours than what they are actually paid to do.

How do you know that? and again it not only applies to CS. I was not paid overtime and put the hours in like millions of others in this country.

I am not saying all CS are lazy and incompetent that would be stupid just saying if they screw up they need to be accountable.

 


One more point

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 17 Jan 21 11.05am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by palace chick

Am I missing something here (havenít read much about this, just what Iíve heard on the news) - if this information was on a data base isnít there a back up somewhere up in the cloud / server? Canít it be restored even if itís a day or so out?

That is the nub of the matter, apparently not so why not.

 


One more point

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Online Flag Horsham 17 Jan 21 12.57pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

In my experience (as a senior civil servant of many years,) plenty of people are put through some sort of performance process that could lead to dismissal or if the situation merits it are simply dismissed every year.

In many cases for example computer misuse people are sacked on the spot. It is no longer the case that it was nigh on impossible that you could never be sacked from a civil service job.

What I don't get is if people genuinely believe all civil servants do is turn up late morning spend an afternoon down the pub, have a career rarely troubled by work or responsibility then retire on a hugh pension, why don't they apply for these jobs?

Having retired 2 years ago after 40 years in CS I agree with you. Over the years it has become more common for staff to be sacked. In my job mainly for misuse of computer information or malfeasance in public office. Canít agree more with your last paragraph

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 17 Jan 21 1.01pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

How do you know that? and again it not only applies to CS. I was not paid overtime and put the hours in like millions of others in this country.

I am not saying all CS are lazy and incompetent that would be stupid just saying if they screw up they need to be accountable.

The extra hours worked is evidenced by a working hours survey carried out annually by the FDA Union which represents senior civil servants across all departments. It evidences long hours and early starts/late finishes.

Senior Civil Servants are not paid overtime and do not have a right to hour for hour time off in lieu.

Not saying that does not happen in the Private Sector mind you.

But the point here was/is around accountability and my point remains. This government along with many would be happy to chuck a civil servant under a bus to save a ministers skin. There are some current ministers that had they been head of a large private company would have lost their jobs long ago.

 

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