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 EverybodyDannsNow  SE19 14 Jul 21 11.39am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
She is not very good at communicating. the Left hate it that the Conservatives have senior ministers who are not white and they cannot play the race card. The problem for me is that the " taking of the knee " is too linked to the Sasha Johnson / UK BLM / extreme politics camp, the BLM logo used to be all over Sky Sports and others until the actuality of BLM UK was well known. It's ridiculous to accuse people who don't agree with TTK as racist etc etc. Those who are now committed to TTK cannot or will not change their position so we now have a divisive imported US concept front and centre in UK. The 'link' is entirely in your head. The players, and Southgate, explained many many times why they are kneeling - if someone is making a protest, would you not ask them what is their cause as oppose to assuming it? The whole thing is a huge straw man - it's a form of protest which has been used for a whole range of reasons over time, 99% of which do not involve BLM. Do you genuinely believe that Harry Kane is a raging marxist? Or Mason Mount wants to defund the police?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jul 21 12.45pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The 'link' is entirely in your head. The players, and Southgate, explained many many times why they are kneeling - if someone is making a protest, would you not ask them what is their cause as oppose to assuming it? The whole thing is a huge straw man - it's a form of protest which has been used for a whole range of reasons over time, 99% of which do not involve BLM. Do you genuinely believe that Harry Kane is a raging marxist? Or Mason Mount wants to defund the police? I think the overriding reason why taking the knee should end and should never has started is quite simply that it has no effect on anything related to racism whatsonever other than achieve greater division and provide a busier and more sensational 24 hour news cycle for the media and give politicians something to pretend they care about.
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| DanH SW2 14 Jul 21 1.18pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think the overriding reason why taking the knee should end and should never has started is quite simply that it has no effect on anything related to racism whatsonever other than achieve greater division and provide a busier and more sensational 24 hour news cycle for the media and give politicians something to pretend they care about. It makes people uncomfortable and forces people to talk about it. That’s why it’s so powerful. It helps shine a light on what is and isn’t acceptable in society. Just look at the outpouring of love that Marcus Rashford has received at his mural in Manchester and the support Saka has received. What’s the point in doing something that is easily ignored and people just carry on as usual anyway?
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 21 1.34pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The 'link' is entirely in your head. The players, and Southgate, explained many many times why they are kneeling - if someone is making a protest, would you not ask them what is their cause as oppose to assuming it? The whole thing is a huge straw man - it's a form of protest which has been used for a whole range of reasons over time, 99% of which do not involve BLM. Do you genuinely believe that Harry Kane is a raging marxist? Or Mason Mount wants to defund the police? Well yeah.....I kind of agree with you. Footballers aren't usually that bright and will take the path most taken by others.....Essentially they do as they are told....so this club kneel yet QPR stopped kneeling....how much concern do you think the individual player had? England would kneel other countries wouldn't....I'm sure that most players would just do what the consensus said. They are there to have careers not die on pointless political hills. However if someone does a Nazi salute would you say that they aren't supporting the Nazis? I would imagine most on the left would say they are..... Some gestures are just strongly linked with other organisations. But when it's been a gesture also done by communists suddenly they aren't as bothered. You or I wouldn't say that the English players who did the Nazi salute in the thirties were Nazis. Yet they did what was expected of them....because that's what most footballers try to do. I have little doubt that there are white players who would much rather not kneel but then again I should imagine they don't want the fallout either.....which would come from the usual suspects. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2021 4.57pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 14 Jul 21 6.14pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Well yeah.....I kind of agree with you. Footballers aren't usually that bright and will take the path most taken by others.....Essentially they do as they are told....so this club kneel yet QPR stopped kneeling....how much concern do you think the individual player had? England would kneel other countries wouldn't....I'm sure that most players would just do what the consensus said. They are there to have careers not die on pointless political hills. However if someone does a Nazi salute would you say that they aren't supporting the Nazis? I would imagine most on the left would say they are..... Some gestures are just strongly linked with other organisations. But when it's been a gesture also done by communists suddenly they aren't as bothered. You or I wouldn't say that the English players who did the Nazi salute in the thirties were Nazis. Yet they did what was expected of them....because that's what most footballers try to do. I have little doubt that there are white players who would much rather not kneel but then again I should imagine they don't want the fallout either.....which would come from the usual suspects. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Jul 2021 4.57pm) You reference footballers' intelligence a lot - I don't really understand why. Most people aren't bright, it's not exclusive to footballers, and it's certainly inclusive of politicians. Footballers have as much right as anyone else to express an opinion as to how the country is run. Tory politicians tweeting footballers things like "stick to football" is very dangerous ground. The point is this England team very much are on a political hill, and many have exposed themselves to abuse and disdain that they would never have faced otherwise - you think it's becasuse they're told to, I think it's because they see what their team-mates are exposed to every day - that can never be proved either way, but I'd sooner trust what they are saying than assume for them. The nazi salute comparison is valid to a point, but to my knowledge there are infinitely more examples of taking the knee as a method of protest (outside of BLM) than there are examples or organisations adopting the 'Nazi salute' outside of the Nazis.. Kaepernick specifically took advice from a military friend on a method of protest which would not disrespect the flag, but again, we'd rather listen to other people telling us what he meant than the man himself. Regardless, unless you believe they are actively promoting Marxism or Communism (which I think everyone would agree is nonsense), then to boo them is nonsensical - they've told us why they're kneeling.. listen to them.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jul 21 6.39pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
It makes people uncomfortable and forces people to talk about it. That’s why it’s so powerful. It helps shine a light on what is and isn’t acceptable in society. Just look at the outpouring of love that Marcus Rashford has received at his mural in Manchester and the support Saka has received. What’s the point in doing something that is easily ignored and people just carry on as usual anyway? We'd all like to know. All it has done is antagonise people. It was completely unnecessary in the first place and now, predictably, the negative fall out is now being used as a justification.
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cryrst  The garden of England 14 Jul 21 7.06pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You reference footballers' intelligence a lot - I don't really understand why. Most people aren't bright, it's not exclusive to footballers, and it's certainly inclusive of politicians. Footballers have as much right as anyone else to express an opinion as to how the country is run. Tory politicians tweeting footballers things like "stick to football" is very dangerous ground. The point is this England team very much are on a political hill, and many have exposed themselves to abuse and disdain that they would never have faced otherwise - you think it's becasuse they're told to, I think it's because they see what their team-mates are exposed to every day - that can never be proved either way, but I'd sooner trust what they are saying than assume for them. The nazi salute comparison is valid to a point, but to my knowledge there are infinitely more examples of taking the knee as a method of protest (outside of BLM) than there are examples or organisations adopting the 'Nazi salute' outside of the Nazis.. Kaepernick specifically took advice from a military friend on a method of protest which would not disrespect the flag, but again, we'd rather listen to other people telling us what he meant than the man himself. Regardless, unless you believe they are actively promoting Marxism or Communism (which I think everyone would agree is nonsense), then to boo them is nonsensical - they've told us why they're kneeling.. listen to them. Not once have you seen that kneeling in England could be winding people up. We and the usa are the only ones doing it. Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan are they doing it. Nope. Why? The UK and USA are probably the most multicultural, accepting, diverse countries in the world. The sportsman should be celebrating that; not portraying it isn't like that.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 14 Jul 21 7.26pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Not once have you seen that kneeling in England could be winding people up. We and the usa are the only ones doing it. Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan are they doing it. Nope. Why? The UK and USA are probably the most multicultural, accepting, diverse countries in the world. The sportsman should be celebrating that; not portraying it isn't like that. They know it’s winding people up (including many of their own fans) and they still persist - why do you think that is? Clearly they don’t agree with your assessment of the country, as is their right.
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| Ouzo Dan 14 Jul 21 7.51pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The 'link' is entirely in your head. The players, and Southgate, explained many many times why they are kneeling - if someone is making a protest, would you not ask them what is their cause as oppose to assuming it? The whole thing is a huge straw man - it's a form of protest which has been used for a whole range of reasons over time, 99% of which do not involve BLM. Do you genuinely believe that Harry Kane is a raging marxist? Or Mason Mount wants to defund the police? The England team once gave a Nazi salute, it doesnt mean they wanted to gas the jews. Plenty on the extreme left see the kneeling, the black power gestures and all the other politicised rubbish and actively cheer it all on because it advances their political ambitions, what is being pushed is far bigger than the england team.
Sex Panther 60% of the time it works every time |
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| Stirlingsays 14 Jul 21 7.57pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
You reference footballers' intelligence a lot - I don't really understand why. Most people aren't bright, it's not exclusive to footballers, and it's certainly inclusive of politicians. Footballers have as much right as anyone else to express an opinion as to how the country is run. Certainly, not contested. Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Tory politicians tweeting footballers things like "stick to football" is very dangerous ground. The point is this England team very much are on a political hill, and many have exposed themselves to abuse and disdain that they would never have faced otherwise - you think it's becasuse they're told to, I think it's because they see what their team-mates are exposed to every day - that can never be proved either way, but I'd sooner trust what they are saying than assume for them. Some footballers will be more political and interested in this stuff than others: that's natural variation. I was making that point....however it has to be said that what they are doing is extremely divisive yet safe for them as footballers....as in it won't affect their pay and accords with their 'bubble'. However, while they insist upon their right to free speech their supporters seek to deny and demonise the free speech of the crowd that are made to watch it. Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The nazi salute comparison is valid to a point, but to my knowledge there are infinitely more examples of taking the knee as a method of protest (outside of BLM) than there are examples or organisations adopting the 'Nazi salute' outside of the Nazis.. Kaepernick specifically took advice from a military friend on a method of protest which would not disrespect the flag, but again, we'd rather listen to other people telling us what he meant than the man himself. Regardless, unless you believe they are actively promoting Marxism or Communism (which I think everyone would agree is nonsense), then to boo them is nonsensical - they've told us why they're kneeling.. listen to them. I would say the political taking of the kneel is exclusive to the left or liberal. I'm certainly not built from that soy myself. Like I said, I don't believe that most of them are actively promoting communism....hell I believe most of them are seeking the easiest path available.....you will see who truly believes in this when it's called off because the real believers will carry on. As for me 'listening', don't you think I've heard all this before? I grew up in Stockwell, Brixton, I know all about 'racism'.....I lived in an area that was majority non white. The 'anti racism' crowd are living in cloud cuckoo land and the whole debate....well, there isn't actually a debate it's one side lecturing everybody else with no right of reply. The whole debate is dominated by the diversity industry bullying and controlling the propaganda with no official pushback because people are scared of the persecution of their opinion.....scared for their jobs, what kind of environment is that? Not the one I grew up in anyway. And when there is pushback....as the voice of crowds can't easily be controlled....then we get endless and one sided demonisation. And you ask for us to 'listen'....Frankly when have you lot 'listened'? Personally I listened for years but I disagree pretty much with the entire message and the future the elites have decided for this country decades ago.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ouzo Dan 14 Jul 21 8.04pm |
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All this kneeling, raising awareness and making racists uncomfortable hasnt really worked has it? I mean look what has been going on recently. Plus its all being aimed at the wrong people, all the evidence and numbers show that 99% the abuse came from abroad.
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Attachment: | DanH SW2 14 Jul 21 8.54pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We'd all like to know. All it has done is antagonise people. It was completely unnecessary in the first place and now, predictably, the negative fall out is now being used as a justification.
I find it staggering how little self-awareness you actually have. The overt racist abuse received as well as those like you trying to pretend there is no issue in society show how absolutely necessary what they are doing is.
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