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March 29 2023 6.08pm

Letís celebrate the left

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 23 Jan 23 1.37pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen


I would treat Northern Ireland differently as Brexit has caused real problems there, blame lies on both the UK govt and EU for this.

Edited by HKOwen (23 Jan 2023 12.21pm)

i would blame the EU and their puppet regime of Leo Varadkar for all the problems.

knowing people in England, Northern Ireland and South of Ireland , i can say categorically that Nothing Varadkar ever says has the support of anybody......other than nasty Angela Merkel & her cronies.

the EU are trying to use Ulster as a stick to beat John Bull. And its a really bad idea.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (23 Jan 2023 1.55pm)

 


inŠr n-aonar i Anerley, uimhir a haon londain theas

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Online Flag Croydon 23 Jan 23 2.17pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

I will be very surprised if there are anything but peace-meal changes to the NI protocol.

NI has avoided the other UK members problems by retaining its single market membership and its cross border trade is flourishing.

The UK basically would have signed up to anything to get the political capital of 'getting brexit done'.

A right old turkey Johnson's oven-ready deal has turned out to be.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 23 Jan 23 4.12pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

It is entirely the EU's fault, for insisting that their inflexible protectionist, racketeering diktats are adhered to.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 23 Jan 23 4.56pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

i would blame the EU and their puppet regime of Leo Varadkar for all the problems.

knowing people in England, Northern Ireland and South of Ireland , i can say categorically that Nothing Varadkar ever says has the support of anybody......other than nasty Angela Merkel & her cronies.

the EU are trying to use Ulster as a stick to beat John Bull. And its a really bad idea.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (23 Jan 2023 1.55pm)

You can't claim to be an authority on Ireland and then use the term 'South of Ireland'!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 23 Jan 23 5.06pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

i would blame the EU and their puppet regime of Leo Varadkar for all the problems.

knowing people in England, Northern Ireland and South of Ireland , i can say categorically that Nothing Varadkar ever says has the support of anybody......other than nasty Angela Merkel & her cronies.

the EU are trying to use Ulster as a stick to beat John Bull. And its a really bad idea.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (23 Jan 2023 1.55pm)

The EU are very good at very bad ideas.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 23 Jan 23 5.06pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You keep avoiding the question re alternatives to economic planning? I'm sure you're not suggesting just blind faith?

A forecast is not fact but it is also not pulled out of thin air - it is infinitely more sensible to use the information we have to make projections than to ignore it altogether. Worse still would be to dismiss it because it hurts out feelings.

It's a bit boring you're asking me to provide the examples when there are so many of them - it's also boring because you will not accept any of them because you they are projections and sticking your figures in your ears is preferable.

"OBR reports that Brexit costs us £40bn a year in lost tax revenue"

"The only member of the G7 with a smaller economy than before the pandemic"

"The British pound has lost nearly a fifth of it's value since the EU referendum"

"Research by the Centre for European Reform, a think tank, estimates that over the 18 months to June 2022, UK goods trade is 7% lower than it would have been had Britain remained in the European Union."

"Researchers at the London School of Economics estimate that the variety of UK products exported to the European Union declined by 30% during the first year of Brexit. "

"A British Chambers of Commerce survey of more than 1,168 businesses published this month reported that 77% said Brexit has not helped them increase sales or grow their businesses."

"Brexit to reduce Britainís output by 4% over 15 years compared to remaining in the bloc. Exports and imports are projected to be around 15% lower in the long run."

"in the fourth quarter of 2021, UK goods export volumes to the European Union were 9% below 2019 levels, with imports from the European Union 18% lower. Goods exports to non-EU countries were 18% weaker than in 2019."

"By the end of 2021, total goods export volumes among advanced economies had rebounded to 3% above their pre-pandemic levels, while UK goods export volumes remained about 12% weaker."

"The United Kingdom ďappears to have become a less trade-intensive economy, with trade as a share of GDP falling 12% since 2019, two and a half times more than in any other G7 country,Ē the OBR said in the March report."


I appreciate that you believe what you are saying, but that doesn't make it so.

So ref your 2 nd paragraph; do we act and respond as how it is on said forecasts as truth then. By begging to rejoin the EU or something. Recent forecasts about inflation have been wrong I will add.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 23 Jan 23 5.09pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

This is quite long and a bit Sir Humphrey Appleby-ish but interesting.


[Link]

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 23 Jan 23 5.39pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

So ref your 2 nd paragraph; do we act and respond as how it is on said forecasts as truth then. By begging to rejoin the EU or something. Recent forecasts about inflation have been wrong I will add.

ďit is infinitely more sensible to use the information we have to make projections than to ignore it altogether. Worse still would be to dismiss it because it hurts our feelings.Ē

Itís not about rejoining the EU - thatís not purely economical and there are politics to consider, so itís a non-starter for now.

But we can still honestly acknowledge where we are in relation to Brexit and make decisions based on that - pretending ďthereís just no way to knowĒ all these years later is disingenuous and it achieves nothing.

Recent forecasts have also been right, thatís the nature of forecasting, I will add.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 23 Jan 23 7.21pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

ďit is infinitely more sensible to use the information we have to make projections than to ignore it altogether. Worse still would be to dismiss it because it hurts our feelings.Ē

Itís not about rejoining the EU - thatís not purely economical and there are politics to consider, so itís a non-starter for now.

But we can still honestly acknowledge where we are in relation to Brexit and make decisions based on that - pretending ďthereís just no way to knowĒ all these years later is disingenuous and it achieves nothing.

Recent forecasts have also been right, thatís the nature of forecasting, I will add.

Ok rejoining would not be a starter but as another poster mentioned, we have had a £400 billion spend on covid, x millions on the fuel/ cost of living crisis and recently the Ukraine war. Put that half a trillion back in our coffers and just maybe itís not that bad.
The state workers could get their rise, everyone could probably get a tax break and councils might have increased budgets. Atm it is hard to count losses due to these things. You and forecasters may well be correct but to say itís failed after such unknowns following huge spending in just 5 years since brexit could make you wrong or at least off track.

 

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View The Dolphin's Profile The Dolphin Flag 24 Jan 23 7.17am Send a Private Message to The Dolphin Add The Dolphin as a friend

Brexit was always going to take 5-10 years to work - or not.
Covid and a war - for those read China and Russia - hmmm - have made the benefits or otherwise of Brexit impossible to read.
I am still glad we are away from them and could never vote for Labour because of the certain alliance they will form - whatever Starmer says.
When they get into power it won't be long until Starmer is gone so what he says won't count!

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 24 Jan 23 3.46pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Can someone explain to me why our economic performance is so much worse than comparable economies over the last year or two, if we're so sure it's not Brexit?

Covid-19 was worldwide, as was the impact of the Ukraine invasion and yet we are the only G7 economy not to recover to pre-pandemic size... why could that be? What am I missing?

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (24 Jan 2023 3.46pm)

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 24 Jan 23 4.37pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Can someone explain to me why our economic performance is so much worse than comparable economies over the last year or two, if we're so sure it's not Brexit?

Covid-19 was worldwide, as was the impact of the Ukraine invasion and yet we are the only G7 economy not to recover to pre-pandemic size... why could that be? What am I missing?

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (24 Jan 2023 3.46pm)

Other countries don't spent £192 bn on a national health service: which doesn't work?

 

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