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May 7 2021 5.51pm

What Are The Americans Doing For Us?

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 04 May 21 11.50am Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Not Colin!

What? The caterpillar. Surely not?

 

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View HolmesdaleUpper's Profile HolmesdaleUpper Flag Sanderstead 04 May 21 12.09pm Send a Private Message to HolmesdaleUpper Add HolmesdaleUpper as a friend

It was only speculation, but, pre-covid there was talk about immanent take over likely to be announced soon. Think this died a death with the global lock down. So could it be the Yanks are just treading water until that can be revived?
ESL has probably put a block on desirability of any new owners from the States. So we could be in limbo for a while yet.

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 04 May 21 12.54pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Originally posted by HolmesdaleUpper


ESL has probably put a block on desirability of any new owners from the States. So we could be in limbo for a while yet.

Yes, I too had similar thoughts. We're going to have an interesting summer one way or another.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 04 May 21 1.29pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Very true but why do they use such opaque structures if there is nothing to hide? No doubt to extract money in a 'tax efficient,' way.

Whilst you can only follow the money so far, the gaps are perhaps more telling than anything else.

The full ownership of the club is shrouded by exactly the kind of mysterious dead end paper trails that should possibly be banned in every walk of life, though we do know that the main owners are Parsh and the two Americans followed by a bunch of far smaller shareholders. Parish and the Yanks have the majority and so are defacto owners.

Parish takes a wage as he runs it day to day. It is true that the Americans could extract money from the club somehow I'm sure, but it seems highly unlikely that is their intention. The rate of return would be so very, very low compared to what they have plainly put in, that they could literally leave the same money in a bank account and make more. On the available evidence, they aren't here to rip anyone off, have plainly helped us out when we needed it to the tune of tens of millions on more than one occasion, but at the same time have not yet done that which they were most widely expected to do and make significant investments in infrastructure (or Selhurst anyway).

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 04 May 21 1.42pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

The full ownership of the club is shrouded by exactly the kind of mysterious dead end paper trails that should possibly be banned in every walk of life, though we do know that the main owners are Parsh and the two Americans followed by a bunch of far smaller shareholders. Parish and the Yanks have the majority and so are defacto owners.

Parish takes a wage as he runs it day to day. It is true that the Americans could extract money from the club somehow I'm sure, but it seems highly unlikely that is their intention. The rate of return would be so very, very low compared to what they have plainly put in, that they could literally leave the same money in a bank account and make more. On the available evidence, they aren't here to rip anyone off, have plainly helped us out when we needed it to the tune of tens of millions on more than one occasion, but at the same time have not yet done that which they were most widely expected to do and make significant investments in infrastructure (or Selhurst anyway).

Thanks BTP. Best responses so far. Maybe now the Academy has been completed and we're in the PL for another year, we'll see some progress with the stadium.

Like you, I trust Mr Parish to do what he believes to be the right thing for our club.

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 04 May 21 4.13pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

If I recall rightly I don’t think they even visited Selhurst until after the deal was done. Clearly we haven’t impressed them as they never seem to come or any reps either. But how do I know. Just seems like a dud investment for them. No real interest. Or am I wrong? Anyone know?

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 04 May 21 4.25pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

The full ownership of the club is shrouded by exactly the kind of mysterious dead end paper trails that should possibly be banned in every walk of life, though we do know that the main owners are Parsh and the two Americans followed by a bunch of far smaller shareholders. Parish and the Yanks have the majority and so are defacto owners.

Parish takes a wage as he runs it day to day. It is true that the Americans could extract money from the club somehow I'm sure, but it seems highly unlikely that is their intention. The rate of return would be so very, very low compared to what they have plainly put in, that they could literally leave the same money in a bank account and make more. On the available evidence, they aren't here to rip anyone off, have plainly helped us out when we needed it to the tune of tens of millions on more than one occasion, but at the same time have not yet done that which they were most widely expected to do and make significant investments in infrastructure (or Selhurst anyway).

Not strictly true it is very easy to extract value. They have loaned money which is inserted into the structure at a number of levels and through structures such as the Delaware LLP's which are not obliged to file accounts. These loans attract interest at a far higher rate that is paid by the banks - as no bank would lend that money on a simple risk analysis and so a lot of money is simply servicing debt.

Parish also takes a lot more than his salary as he controls a number of the service companies used in the structure which charge a healthy rate for their services. These structures are pretty standard in the affairs of wealthy individuals.

These people are not philanthropists.

 

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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Flag People's Republic of Gozo 04 May 21 4.39pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

When Harris and Blitzer bought their share they said:

“We couldn’t be more excited to be joining the Crystal Palace family. We were drawn to the club’s rich history, exciting brand of football, strong leadership and, above all, its passionate fans."

At the time of signing the deal we were riding high sixth in the table. I wonder if the excitement has died down yet Pardew also commented in 2018 that the yanks couldn't understand why we were still in a relegation battle after spending £26m on Tekkers.

Add that to the fact it was reported in 2019 that they had enlisted a law firm to try and sell their share and it suggests they perhaps expected to get a bigger return on investment. COVID probably put an end to any hopes of an immediate sale.

All the things that have appeared in the press since they came on board gives me the feeling they may have underestimated just how competitive the PL is. It may also be partly behind the hold-up in development plans. Thankfully in Parish we have a man who I believe genuinely has the club's best interests at heart. The Americans didn't come on board as a gesture of goodwill, so I don't feel we owe them any huge amount of gratitude. They saw what they thought was an opportunity to turn a decent profit and possibly now realise they can't and want out and I hope they get their wishes. I feel no animosity towards them, it is just the way these things are, but we certainly don't need reluctant investors running the club.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 04 May 21 4.52pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

When Harris and Blitzer bought their share they said:

“We couldn’t be more excited to be joining the Crystal Palace family. We were drawn to the club’s rich history, exciting brand of football, strong leadership and, above all, its passionate fans."

At the time of signing the deal we were riding high sixth in the table. I wonder if the excitement has died down yet Pardew also commented in 2018 that the yanks couldn't understand why we were still in a relegation battle after spending £26m on Tekkers.

Add that to the fact it was reported in 2019 that they had enlisted a law firm to try and sell their share and it suggests they perhaps expected to get a bigger return on investment. COVID probably put an end to any hopes of an immediate sale.

All the things that have appeared in the press since they came on board gives me the feeling they may have underestimated just how competitive the PL is. It may also be partly behind the hold-up in development plans. Thankfully in Parish we have a man who I believe genuinely has the club's best interests at heart. The Americans didn't come on board as a gesture of goodwill, so I don't feel we owe them any huge amount of gratitude. They saw what they thought was an opportunity to turn a decent profit and possibly now realise they can't and want out and I hope they get their wishes. I feel no animosity towards them, it is just the way these things are, but we certainly don't need reluctant investors running the club.


What he said!

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 04 May 21 5.48pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

Not strictly true it is very easy to extract value. They have loaned money which is inserted into the structure at a number of levels and through structures such as the Delaware LLP's which are not obliged to file accounts. These loans attract interest at a far higher rate that is paid by the banks - as no bank would lend that money on a simple risk analysis and so a lot of money is simply servicing debt.

Parish also takes a lot more than his salary as he controls a number of the service companies used in the structure which charge a healthy rate for their services. These structures are pretty standard in the affairs of wealthy individuals.

These people are not philanthropists.

Yes, Parish has a firm which is (I think literally) called 'Smoke and Mirrors' which hires services to the club, but it's all shown in the accounts and is for fairly small beans in the grand scheme of things - if he wanted another 100k a year I'm sure he could just give himself a pay rise - so it's hardly suspicious.

I'm sure you are right that there is some clever way to get a higher rate of return on what is probably about £100 - £150m(?) that the Americans have put in by now (if you include the purchase price) than they'd literally get in interest from a bank, but I still don't think there is any evidence to suggest they are looking to cream off of the club. If they depleted it, even bit at a time, then their investment goes sour, and they lose a huge amount more than they would ever gain through all the little nibbles they might be able to take along the way. Plus, if they were looking to extract more than they put in, why would they keep coughing up tens of millions when we need it?

Agreed that we are not dealing with philanthropists, but I wouldn't expect to be. I certainly don't begrudge Parish his salary (high as it is), nor do I begrudge the Americans a fairly quick buck if they redevelop Selhurst and sell their shares to some other billionaires. All seems fair enough to me.

There is some obscurity in the structure, set up and investment plan, but none of that makes any of them dodgy, which I think is the conclusion one's mind can wander to in the ongoing absence of total clarity on this issue. Them not telling us exactly what they are up to isn't the same as them doing something they shouldn't.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 04 May 21 6.09pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

And fans donated their own money to the club or specifically the training ground from games not attended end of Covid 19/20 season. Like Lifeline, except the owners didn’t need the donations. Pretty impressive to get poorer people to hand over money the asset owners could afford.

 


COYP

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 04 May 21 6.52pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Yes, Parish has a firm which is (I think literally) called 'Smoke and Mirrors' which hires services to the club, but it's all shown in the accounts and is for fairly small beans in the grand scheme of things - if he wanted another 100k a year I'm sure he could just give himself a pay rise - so it's hardly suspicious.

I'm sure you are right that there is some clever way to get a higher rate of return on what is probably about £100 - £150m(?) that the Americans have put in by now (if you include the purchase price) than they'd literally get in interest from a bank, but I still don't think there is any evidence to suggest they are looking to cream off of the club. If they depleted it, even bit at a time, then their investment goes sour, and they lose a huge amount more than they would ever gain through all the little nibbles they might be able to take along the way. Plus, if they were looking to extract more than they put in, why would they keep coughing up tens of millions when we need it?

Agreed that we are not dealing with philanthropists, but I wouldn't expect to be. I certainly don't begrudge Parish his salary (high as it is), nor do I begrudge the Americans a fairly quick buck if they redevelop Selhurst and sell their shares to some other billionaires. All seems fair enough to me.

There is some obscurity in the structure, set up and investment plan, but none of that makes any of them dodgy, which I think is the conclusion one's mind can wander to in the ongoing absence of total clarity on this issue. Them not telling us exactly what they are up to isn't the same as them doing something they shouldn't.

I am merely suggesting that like any international investor they structure their investments in a way that offers them an opportunity to maximise their income.

View of that what you will. Not suggesting anything illegal.

 

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