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September 22 2021 12.16am

They kept that quiet. (LOCKED)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 04 Sep 21 10.11pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Vaibow

it stops the spread 100% does it?

It reduces your chance of catching and spreading the virus.

People keep saying that 'you can still get it' and using the fact that it doesn't stop 100% of people getting it to show that, but these two pieces of information are clearly very different. No-one is saying that it's impossible for people to catch and spread the virus post vaccination, it is however less likely at time where their immune response is high due to it.

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 04 Sep 21 10.25pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

It reduces your chance of catching and spreading the virus.

People keep saying that 'you can still get it' and using the fact that it doesn't stop 100% of people getting it to show that, but these two pieces of information are clearly very different. No-one is saying that it's impossible for people to catch and spread the virus post vaccination, it is however less likely at time where their immune response is high due to it.

This is where those insisting on vaccinations puzzle me. Some won’t even socialise with unvaccinated people, yet they could catch it off vaccinated people. Surely they should isolate themselves until covid goes, or they die or old age, whichever happens first.

 


COYP

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 04 Sep 21 10.30pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

This is where those insisting on vaccinations puzzle me. Some won’t even socialise with unvaccinated people, yet they could catch it off vaccinated people. Surely they should isolate themselves until covid goes, or they die or old age, whichever happens first.

Yes, there's not much sense to that. Really once vaccinated that's as good as it's going to get, and so if they won't associate with unvaccinated people, they appear to be saying that they are never in their lives going to do so. Best to just get on with things. A combo of vaccination and natural infection can't be bad; hiding away won't help anyone.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 04 Sep 21 10.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

It reduces your chance of catching and spreading the virus.

People keep saying that 'you can still get it' and using the fact that it doesn't stop 100% of people getting it to show that, but these two pieces of information are clearly very different. No-one is saying that it's impossible for people to catch and spread the virus post vaccination, it is however less likely at time where their immune response is high due to it.

Is there evidence for that?

There is certainly evidence for reduction in symptoms and thus hospitations.

The point has been made though that vaccinated people will socialise more and regard themselves at less risk than before. Hence spread will definitely be higher than before.....though thankfully less of a percentage will die.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Bearcage's Profile Bearcage Flag Welling 04 Sep 21 10.53pm Send a Private Message to Bearcage Add Bearcage as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Where do they say it reduces the chance of you getting the virus?

I've only heard that it reduces the symptoms.

And as stated, more mixing by the vaccinated also increases transmission. Also, according to the figures the number of unvaccinated people is under ten percent.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 8.43pm)

A vaccine reduces the chances of you getting COVID-19 (the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2). The vaccine enables the majority of those exposed to the virus to fight it, so instead of it multiplying in the body and them getting COVID-19 and becoming contagious, the virus dies.

As the majority of those vaccinated when exposed to the virus do not get COVID-19, they cannot pass the virus on to anyone, so the vaccine reduces the chances of others getting COVID-19, as it reduces the chances of those exposed being contagious.

More mixing by vaccinated may increase transmission risk, specifically for those the vaccine has not worked as effectively on, but this increase is low compared to if there was no vaccine or if similar numbers of unvaccinated were mixing (so using it as an argument against the vaccine would just be stupid).
Only 65% of the UK population are fully vaccinated.
The majority of those becoming seriously ill and dying with COVID-19 are those who are not fully vaccinated.

So simply the vaccine:
- reduces the chances of those exposed to the virus catching COVID-19;
- reduces the chances of those exposed to the virus becoming contagious and passing it on to others, so reduces the chances of others catching COVID-19;
- reduces the chances of those who catch COVID-19 becoming seriously ill;
- reduces the chances of those who catch COVID-19 dying.

The vaccine helps protects both those who are vaccinated and those around them; adults not having the vaccine without good medical cause is not only stupid, it is also selfish. The case for children is more nuanced and balanced, because for most of them COVID-19 is not a serious illness. But what has to be considered is the consequences for others if COVID-19 becomes widespread amongst children (which is why many countries are vaccinating the under 18s and why we probably will go the same way).

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 04 Sep 21 10.58pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Going round in circles here, I queried specific points made and I wanted statistical evidence for it.....but never mind. I'm not looking to argue, I was more curious.

I think we can all agree that the vaccines reduce deaths and I'm happy to leave it at that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.00pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Vaibow's Profile Vaibow Flag vancouver/croydon 04 Sep 21 11.13pm Send a Private Message to Vaibow Add Vaibow as a friend

bottom lime is no one should be in hospital... the smokers, the drinkers, the druggies... the obese, the diabetic... the suidicals, millions of deaths, preventable...

you cut that down by half, the health care system frees up so much in terms of space, budget, space..

TB kills 2.5 million annually.... spreads the same way as covid, kills pretty much the same way.. are countries like India on the no fly list....

honestly, at this point people aren't gunny hang their mind... that's fine, but look after yourself, it's no one elses responsibility.

 


This was once a quality forum....

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 04 Sep 21 11.14pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Going round in circles here, I queried specific points made and I wanted statistical evidence for it.....but never mind. I'm not looking to argue, I was more curious.

I think we can all agree that the vaccines reduce deaths and I'm happy to leave it at that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.00pm)

I don't think we are going round in circles. I think bearcage post above says it all, and that your position is demonstrably wrong. I think there is a significant risk in mistaking peoples different ability to understand matters of fact for a difference of opinion, so that those who are in the wrong appear simply to be of a different view, when those two things are not the same, and there is such a thing as being wrong.

Those who refuse to be vaccinated but seek to retain all their freedoms and privileges are wrong, and it really matters to say so.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (04 Sep 2021 11.15pm)

 

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View Bearcage's Profile Bearcage Flag Welling 04 Sep 21 11.17pm Send a Private Message to Bearcage Add Bearcage as a friend

Originally posted by Eden Eagle


How do you explain Israel then?

One of the highest levels of vaccinated people in the world and also the highest level of transmission?

The “vaccine passport” is the step to introduce digital social ID cards such as we see in China - it will do nothing to stop the spread of CV.

Israel is in accordance with the fact the vaccine reduces the chances of catching COVID-19.
It has one of the highest level of vaccinated people (60% of population fully vaccinated, 80% of adults) and amongst the lowest levels of restrictions on movement.
The vaccine reduces (but does not eliminate) the chances of getting COVID-19, it also reduces the chances of those who catch it becoming seriously ill or dying. Israel has low restrictions and so more mixing and more COVID-19 cases. Currently it has more people with COVID-19 than it has had at any other time (but if it did not have the high level vaccinated, this would be considerably higher). Also the death rate is less than half it was at the peak at the beginning of the year (before their vaccine program).


 

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View Vaibow's Profile Vaibow Flag vancouver/croydon 04 Sep 21 11.20pm Send a Private Message to Vaibow Add Vaibow as a friend

Originally posted by Bearcage

A vaccine reduces the chances of you getting COVID-19 (the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2). The vaccine enables the majority of those exposed to the virus to fight it, so instead of it multiplying in the body and them getting COVID-19 and becoming contagious, the virus dies.

As the majority of those vaccinated when exposed to the virus do not get COVID-19, they cannot pass the virus on to anyone, so the vaccine reduces the chances of others getting COVID-19, as it reduces the chances of those exposed being contagious.

More mixing by vaccinated may increase transmission risk, specifically for those the vaccine has not worked as effectively on, but this increase is low compared to if there was no vaccine or if similar numbers of unvaccinated were mixing (so using it as an argument against the vaccine would just be stupid).
Only 65% of the UK population are fully vaccinated.
The majority of those becoming seriously ill and dying with COVID-19 are those who are not fully vaccinated.

So simply the vaccine:
- reduces the chances of those exposed to the virus catching COVID-19;
- reduces the chances of those exposed to the virus becoming
contagious and passing it on to others, so reduces the chances of others catching COVID-19;
- reduces the chances of those who catch COVID-19 becoming seriously ill;
- reduces the chances of those who catch COVID-19 dying.

The vaccine helps protects both those who are vaccinated and those around them; adults not having the vaccine without good medical cause is not only stupid, it is also selfish. The case for children is more nuanced and balanced, because for most of them COVID-19 is not a serious illness. But what has to be considered is the consequences for others if COVID-19 becomes widespread amongst children (which is why many countries are vaccinating the under 18s and why we probably will go the same way).

You can't catch covid-19, that is the name of the infection.. similar, to almost 100% same as pneumonia.

asymptomatic spread is a myth... if you don't have symptoms, you aren't ill.

we have viruses and bacteria in us all the time, some good some bad, that's standard.

If you have a vaccine, your body is producing spike proteins, the pathogens that your body then reacts too...

those spike proteins can escape your body... if you sneezed over someone... they inhale your spike protein, their body will react.

So, a healthy bloke gets the jab, by proxy is then infected... gives its o someone else..

woken up yet?

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 04 Sep 21 11.21pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I don't think we are going round in circles. I think bearcage post above says it all, and that your position is demonstrably wrong. I think there is a significant risk in mistaking peoples different ability to understand matters of fact for a difference of opinion, so that those who are in the wrong appear simply to be of a different view, when those two things are not the same, and there is such a thing as being wrong.

Those who portray their refusal to be vaccinated but seek to retain all their freedoms and privileges are wrong, and it really matters to say so.

I asked for statistical evidence for what was said and received none. I just had stuff restated. For me, that's going around in circles, but whatever....but I'll say if what I actually said (not what some seem to want me to have said) was factually wrong and that can be shown then I'd have learnt something and I'd be grafeful.

As for your last paragraph, well, I completely disagree with you on that, outside of working with the vulnerable: It's also important to state that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2021 11.21pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Vaibow's Profile Vaibow Flag vancouver/croydon 04 Sep 21 11.21pm Send a Private Message to Vaibow Add Vaibow as a friend

Originally posted by Bearcage

Israel is in accordance with the fact the vaccine reduces the chances of catching COVID-19.
It has one of the highest level of vaccinated people (60% of population fully vaccinated, 80% of adults) and amongst the lowest levels of restrictions on movement.
The vaccine reduces (but does not eliminate) the chances of getting COVID-19, it also reduces the chances of those who catch it becoming seriously ill or dying. Israel has low restrictions and so more mixing and more COVID-19 cases. Currently it has more people with COVID-19 than it has had at any other time (but if it did not have the high level vaccinated, this would be considerably higher). Also the death rate is less than half it was at the peak at the beginning of the year (before their vaccine program).


why is that??

 


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