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October 22 2021 5.48pm

Free Speech, the Gab/Andrew Torba way

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Sep 21 5.09pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Why on earth do you imagine I think, or even want, the first amendment to be altered? That's for the Americans to determine, and as there is plenty of scope already available in its interpretation, it seems unlikely.

This has almost nothing to do with the first amendment, other than in Torba's mind and those of his fan base, like you.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's situation directly. His only connection is that he is still able to use Torba's platform to spread "alternative facts". Aka lies.

It is actually also nothing to do with left or right politics, although the right appear to believe it is.

This has much more to do with whether and how a country, acting with the authority of its people via their elected representatives, can ensure they create a safe and responsible environment for their people.

That's not authoritarianism at all. It's democracy.

I have argued many times totally unrestricted free speech in a democracy is a myth. It doesn't exist and never has. As soon as laws are written, some restrictions exist. Only anarchists can genuinely argue for unrestricted free speech. That's not a "leftist" desire at all. It's just a mark of democracy, which imposes responsibilities alongside rights.

I was briefly "red carded" through a misunderstanding, which was quickly corrected. Being able to freely exchange views in a democracy is an essential and precious right. So long as it is done responsibly and causes no harm to others. Which is why you can think whatever you like, and freely express it in private. Do so elsewhere, and some laws apply because you don't own that space. We all do. The Germans own theirs. It's going to be interesting.

To summarize. You want to censor anything you don't agree with whilst claiming to love free speech and only the people who you disagree with tell bad lies.

The lies you and your like minds tell are OK of course.

Good god, you are deluded.... And boring.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Sep 21 6.02pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

We could wonder: are they banning Twitter, apparently thousands of racist tweets according to Sky Sports News and BBC?
Are they banning Facebook for all of its illegal data gathering and election interference?
Are they banning Snapchat and Tik Tok for all the grooming and underage misuse?
All extensively reported on by mainstream media but no action.
Why then the need to rush to ban these platforms? You decide.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 22 Sep 21 6.31pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

We could wonder: are they banning Twitter, apparently thousands of racist tweets according to Sky Sports News and BBC?
Are they banning Facebook for all of its illegal data gathering and election interference?
Are they banning Snapchat and Tik Tok for all the grooming and underage misuse?
All extensively reported on by mainstream media but no action.
Why then the need to rush to ban these platforms? You decide.

A point well made.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 22 Sep 21 7.31pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

We could wonder: are they banning Twitter, apparently thousands of racist tweets according to Sky Sports News and BBC?
Are they banning Facebook for all of its illegal data gathering and election interference?
Are they banning Snapchat and Tik Tok for all the grooming and underage misuse?
All extensively reported on by mainstream media but no action.
Why then the need to rush to ban these platforms? You decide.

Yep, excellent points....Facebook has been used to live stream murders, that obviously wasn't their intent. Then again, it was always obvious that steaming would be used, for dark awful purposes. Facebook accept the inevitable abuse of their services if it suits a greater fiscal purpose....and the left hold fire because it's their tribe. If you look for it on Youtube you can find people being stabbed to death and other murders.

Yet, have a social media platform holding opinions they don't like....suddenly it's beyond the pale.

First they told them, if you don't like it build your own platforms, then when they build them they still do all they can to destroy them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Sep 2021 7.35pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jeeagles Flag 22 Sep 21 8.17pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I subscribe to Gab's emails and keep an eye on their site, making the occasional comment.

Today I received this missive:-

[Link]

Whilst I am pretty sure a couple of regular posters will agree wholeheartedly with everything that Torba writes, I wonder what others think?

Do you think Germany has a "tyrannical" government?

Do you think because a company is based in the USA they can, or even ought to, ignore the laws of other countries, if they offer their services there?

Or are, in the internet age, companies free to ignore laws they don't like?

Do you think "fake news" is whatever a Government says it is, or is it demonstrable untruths which are considered dangerous by elected representatives?

Do you think that the appeals to God as the ultimate authority, and justification, is wise, given that there are echoes of the reasoning used by extremists of other faiths to be heard?

Should unrestricted free speech exist online, or should companies be expected to respond to complaints of dangerous misinformation and, having verified the transgression, remove them from their platforms?

In our increasingly borderless world, if individual countries are unable to determine what is acceptable, or not, who can?

Reading it, they seem like nutters. There isn't anything I've spotted that infringes on anyone else freedoms, or anything that is deliberately deceptive.

It's quite obvious to the reader that it's an opinion piece and a bit strange that Germany wants to take action against them.

The story itself could be fake news?

In previous generations these people would be wearing tin foil on their heads claiming the government could read our minds.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 22 Sep 21 8.35pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

We could wonder: are they banning Twitter, apparently thousands of racist tweets according to Sky Sports News and BBC?
Are they banning Facebook for all of its illegal data gathering and election interference?
Are they banning Snapchat and Tik Tok for all the grooming and underage misuse?
All extensively reported on by mainstream media but no action.
Why then the need to rush to ban these platforms? You decide.

Good point. Multi Billionaire dollar social networks are no doubt harder to push around and have public opinion on their side due to widespread use-age. They very much hold influence and an active relationship with governments in a way that smaller sites do not.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 21 8.38am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

To summarize. You want to censor anything you don't agree with whilst claiming to love free speech and only the people who you disagree with tell bad lies.

The lies you and your like minds tell are OK of course.

Good god, you are deluded.... And boring.

I would never describe you as boring! Ridiculous, prejudiced and often unpleasant, but not boring. You are too funny for that!

So thanks again. I needed a laugh this morning.

That's no more a summary of my views than it is a summary of Einstein's theory of special relativity!

I won't bother to explain why. Anyone sensible will already understand, whilst those who see any alternative view as a lie, like yourself, won't.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 21 8.50am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

We could wonder: are they banning Twitter, apparently thousands of racist tweets according to Sky Sports News and BBC?
Are they banning Facebook for all of its illegal data gathering and election interference?
Are they banning Snapchat and Tik Tok for all the grooming and underage misuse?
All extensively reported on by mainstream media but no action.
Why then the need to rush to ban these platforms? You decide.

This is an argument for more intervention from social media companies and not less, which is what Andrew Torba is demanding.

I presume the sites you mention all co-operate with and respect the German authorities and German laws. Gab does not.

It is, in this instance, for the Germans to decide what are their priorities. As Gab is a hotbed of misinformation, particularly at the moment about the efficacy of vaccines, my guess is that they have determined urgent action is needed.

Whether they are are working with the companies on the other issues you highlight, either alone or with the wider international community, is unknown.

Some form of internationally recognised standards, and oversight, do though seem needed and overdue. Acting alone in the internet age is a little pointless.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 21 9.13am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Reading it, they seem like nutters. There isn't anything I've spotted that infringes on anyone else freedoms, or anything that is deliberately deceptive.

It's quite obvious to the reader that it's an opinion piece and a bit strange that Germany wants to take action against them.

The story itself could be fake news?

In previous generations these people would be wearing tin foil on their heads claiming the government could read our minds.


If you spend any time on Gab you might realise why many people, obviously including the Germans, are concerned. It's not simply a place where people can express themselves freely. It's a place where people who get banned from other places for spreading dangerous lies and misinformation congregate. Not only that, but it is full of anti-vax messaging based on nothing but pseudo-science. The political messaging from its owner is blatant. This is not a neutral site where a free exchange of views occurs between people with different outlooks. This is a one-sided view of the world left unchallenged. As most of those using it appear to have rejected the MSM as a source of information, this produces a potentially dangerous situation, with a group of people in our midst who are convinced of things that are simply untrue. Which doesn't matter if they are passive and only want to convince others they are right, but some aren't. They want action.

Lying behind all of this is the owner's personal outlook. Take a look at this, which was published today, and ask yourself what the motivation is:-

[Link]

I asked a question in my initial post about whether it is wise to regard God as the ultimate authority. No-one expressed an opinion. Andrew Torba's version of Christianity is infused throughout Gab, which leads me to question the "free speech" claims which are made for it by him, as it seems to be a platform for one viewpoint only.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 23 Sep 21 9.25am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


If you spend any time on Gab you might realise why many people, obviously including the Germans, are concerned. It's not simply a place where people can express themselves freely. It's a place where people who get banned from other places for spreading dangerous lies and misinformation congregate. Not only that, but it is full of anti-vax messaging based on nothing but pseudo-science. The political messaging from its owner is blatant. This is not a neutral site where a free exchange of views occurs between people with different outlooks. This is a one-sided view of the world left unchallenged. As most of those using it appear to have rejected the MSM as a source of information, this produces a potentially dangerous situation, with a group of people in our midst who are convinced of things that are simply untrue. Which doesn't matter if they are passive and only want to convince others they are right, but some aren't. They want action.

Lying behind all of this is the owner's personal outlook. Take a look at this, which was published today, and ask yourself what the motivation is:-

[Link]

I asked a question in my initial post about whether it is wise to regard God as the ultimate authority. No-one expressed an opinion. Andrew Torba's version of Christianity is infused throughout Gab, which leads me to question the "free speech" claims which are made for it by him, as it seems to be a platform for one viewpoint only.

And other platforms don't? CND, Labour Party, Ban Abortion will all hold a certain view point. Don't like it try Pro trident, Tories, Pro Abortion sites.

Free speech doesn't mean that every view has to be represented on a website it means a person or group are free to express their views and if you disagree with them start your own site with a counter point.

 


One more point

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Sep 21 9.40am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I would never describe you as boring! Ridiculous, prejudiced and often unpleasant, but not boring. You are too funny for that!

So thanks again. I needed a laugh this morning.

That's no more a summary of my views than it is a summary of Einstein's theory of special relativity!

I won't bother to explain why. Anyone sensible will already understand, whilst those who see any alternative view as a lie, like yourself, won't.

You're welcome.

All the time you post your bulls*** on here, I will be around to highlight your double standards.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Sep 21 10.59am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

And other platforms don't? CND, Labour Party, Ban Abortion will all hold a certain view point. Don't like it try Pro trident, Tories, Pro Abortion sites.

Free speech doesn't mean that every view has to be represented on a website it means a person or group are free to express their views and if you disagree with them start your own site with a counter point.

Of course but that also means that others have the right to reject views in situations where they have the jurisdiction. Torba believes he has a God given right to reach everyone. Which presents a problem in today’s borderless internet world,

 

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