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November 28 2021 11.26pm

Free Speech, the Gab/Andrew Torba way

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 24 Sep 21 1.25pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You know that site just speaks, 'one nation conservative' to me. All claims of dishonesty are hence ended.

Torba isn't doing or saying anything against the law. Once again, he represents millions who disagree with how Silicon valley operates. Indeed, even if he were breaking laws then by your own words he has the rights to resist.

I don't know Torba's views on it but someone like me believes that a peaceful separation in the US is desirable because otherwise conflict is inevitable....I think WE kind of represents why it's inevitable.
I want the least bloody outcome where people on the left or right can live comfortably within political states.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2021 11.48am)

Of course, Torba has the right to resist! So long as he does it lawfully or accepts the consequences if he doesn't. He is entitled to his opinion, and to express it, but no more than anyone else is.

From all I can detect, he does indeed want a separation in the US, but not of the kind I think you advocate. I don't think he wants to see states breaking away from the Union, even though disastrous and implausible attitudes would seem to be attractive to him. I think he wants to establish some kind of separate identity within the whole of the USA, working within, but not co-operating or participating with, it.

Far from avoiding conflict and bloodshed, I think either proposition would result in it. The only way to avoid it is to strengthen the role of democracy and make sure people recover any trust they have lost in it. To achieve that, it is necessary to deal with the current pandemic of misinformation being spread on sites like Gab with as much vigour as that applied to Covid 19. It needs to be done internationally, jst as we did with Covid. Whether that means removing sites like Gab or insisting every item of misinformation is countered by a disclaimer isn't yet clear to me. What's clear is that the problem of conspiracy theories being accepted as truth by the impressionable is a real and present danger to all of us.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Sep 21 1.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

If that's Torba's view I don't have an issue with it....whatever worked. I'm not here making the details.

I'd be happy for people like you to live in the political environment you believe in.....and this should also be true for Torba. Collective agreements on military, trade and other areas isn't an issue.

You just want authoritarianism and your 'conspiracy theory, misinformation' waffle is no different to a ministry of truth.

When it comes to the union I stand for peaceful separation....given how politics has polarised, separation is inevitable.....ultimately all it takes is a split in the elites.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2021 1.38pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 24 Sep 21 5.46pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If that's Torba's view I don't have an issue with it....whatever worked. I'm not here making the details.

I'd be happy for people like you to live in the political environment you believe in.....and this should also be true for Torba. Collective agreements on military, trade and other areas isn't an issue.

You just want authoritarianism and your 'conspiracy theory, misinformation' waffle is no different to a ministry of truth.

When it comes to the union I stand for peaceful separation....given how politics has polarised, separation is inevitable.....ultimately all it takes is a split in the elites.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2021 1.38pm)

The kind of separation that Torba advocates could never be peacefully achieved, and would be so disruptive as to create far more problems than it could ever solve. It would be a disaster for the west for the USA to be focussing on itself just as China dominates. Which is why I believe that a lot of the conspiracy theories are conceived in either China, or Russia, and spread to willing minds in the USA. For these reasons, I feel pretty sure it will be fiercely resisted by the security forces.

I don't want an authoritarian government anywhere. Unlike you, I have no love for people like Erdogan and Bolsonaro. Authoritarianism is often a mark of right wing governments.

It is a typical response of those who admire such people, which apparently includes yourself along with the unlamented past POTUS, to dismiss conspiracy theories and misinformation as simply other opinions. Opinions which are, in their view, just as valid as any other.

This is untrue. Conspiracy theories and misinformation are based on demonstrable lies. They often deny established scientifically proven facts, which command a peer reviewed consensus.

Whilst challenging orthodox viewpoints is healthy, spreading dangerous lies is not.

The attack on the Covid vaccinations is a current and very prevalent example, for which Torba bears his share of the responsibility. Whether knowingly or not, he may well be assisting his countries enemies in their quest for dominance and helping to destroy the country he claims to love.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 24 Sep 21 6.36pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

The crap and lies this guy comes out with beggar belief.

First off he writes, 'Unlike you, I have no love for people like Erdogan and Bolsonaro. Authoritarianism is often a mark of right wing governments.'

? where have I expressed support for either of these two? I know little about Bolsonaro, what I know I like, but I've never spoken about him because South/Central America isn't an interest of mine.

As for Erdogan....?....the only times I've referred to him have been negative. How on earth is he 'right wing'? What does he believe in that I believe in....as usual this guy talks utter crap.

Regarding US separation, ultimately they will decide. However I reject all of WE's contentions. Besides its his politics which seeks to force others to submit to his ideologies and 'truth'.....most on the right just want to be left alone.

As for helping China.... Biden's chief general Milley has just been revealed as committing that very same act while Trump was in office....betraying his own president. So please, the Democrats simply don't give a damn and would do anything......As for misinformation, Hunter's emails have just been confirmed, which the Democrats and their media were lying about since before the election....apparently that was Russian misinformation as well.

So again, you guys will lie through your back teeth and call sh1te gravy if you think it benefits....So Democrat takes on 'misinformation' and 'conspiracy theories' holds no water.

They made 'demonstrable lies' yet it makes no difference because there's no one there to punish them.

Lastly I'll highlight another piece of WE waffle....this sentence.

'Whilst challenging orthodox viewpoints is healthy, spreading dangerous lies is not'.

That could have come right out of Animal Farm. This guy spreads lies...like that I apparently support Erdogan....then he has the cheek to talk as though others are the problem.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 24 Sep 21 10.39pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The crap and lies this guy comes out with beggar belief.

First off he writes, 'Unlike you, I have no love for people like Erdogan and Bolsonaro. Authoritarianism is often a mark of right wing governments.'

? where have I expressed support for either of these two? I know little about Bolsonaro, what I know I like, but I've never spoken about him because South/Central America isn't an interest of mine.

As for Erdogan....?....the only times I've referred to him have been negative. How on earth is he 'right wing'? What does he believe in that I believe in....as usual this guy talks utter crap.

Regarding US separation, ultimately they will decide. However I reject all of WE's contentions. Besides its his politics which seeks to force others to submit to his ideologies and 'truth'.....most on the right just want to be left alone.

As for helping China.... Biden's chief general Milley has just been revealed as committing that very same act while Trump was in office....betraying his own president. So please, the Democrats simply don't give a damn and would do anything......As for misinformation, Hunter's emails have just been confirmed, which the Democrats and their media were lying about since before the election....apparently that was Russian misinformation as well.

So again, you guys will lie through your back teeth and call sh1te gravy if you think it benefits....So Democrat takes on 'misinformation' and 'conspiracy theories' holds no water.

They made 'demonstrable lies' yet it makes no difference because there's no one there to punish them.

Lastly I'll highlight another piece of WE waffle....this sentence.

'Whilst challenging orthodox viewpoints is healthy, spreading dangerous lies is not'.

That could have come right out of Animal Farm. This guy spreads lies...like that I apparently support Erdogan....then he has the cheek to talk as though others are the problem.

Once again, I have neither the time nor the inclination to trawl through years of posts to confirm my memory. So let's look at some easily established facts.

You confirm you admire "what little you know" of Bolsonaro. As I might then know a little more, I can confirm that his, and your, politics are closely aligned. Whether you have said so can be left to the imagination.

That Erdogan is a rightish authoritarian is beyond dispute. As whether you have expressed support for him isn't, I will accept your denial at face value, even though I am pretty sure you would be supporting him in his political struggles with the left in Turkey.

A better example would be Viktor Orban, who I am quite sure you have heaped effusive praise upon in the past. Orban is an archetypical, right wing, populist authoritarian. To my mind, he has a scant regard for democracy and is a wanna-be dictator.

Of course the USA will decide their own destiny, but that doesn't mean we ought not be concerned, as what happens will affect us all. Whether anyone, right or left, wants to be "left alone" is an irrelevancy. Being "alone" isn't an option in a democracy, which demands the opposite of respect and compromise for, and with, others. As no-one will be "forced" to accept anything, except the will of the majority, the basic questions to be answered are "are you a democrat or not"? And then, "if you aren't, what are you doing here?"

Whataboutism is a diversion. If General Milley has committed crimes, let them be found and prosecuted. That no-one is above the law isn't just a principle that applies to the likes of Torba.

If you cannot understand the difference between challenging orthodox viewpoints and spreading dangerous lies, then I really pity you.

It's a world away from the doublespeak to be found in Animal Farm. The first uses factually based new thinking. The other doesn't. It spreads untruths.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 25 Sep 21 12.36am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Whether or not I would support Erdogan on individual policies as opposed to that of other parties I couldn't tell you.

However, what I can tell you is that I regard Erdogan as being terrible and while I'm no leftist I'm definitely no supporter of political Islam either.

So to describe me as a supporter of Erdogan was false.

As for Bolsonaro, If what you say is correct perhaps I would support him....but again, I know little on him or his opposition. That said, I know that in general the left have made disaster zones of central and southern America.

Orban yes, he is an alternative example for Europe and Europeans.

As for your comments on 'conspiracy theories and misinformation'...well yes, it does happen. But each needs to be given its due consideration. However your side just call everything against them 'misinformation' and as they control the bulk of the media they ignore everything. For example, Hunter Biden's emails before the election were called Russian 'misinformation' and dismissed yet now we hear....what we on the right knew all along that they exist and that Biden and the media lied.

Your comments on Milley considering what he did just highlight how nothing you really say holds any weight. He committed treason and directly helped China with information but because the Democrats hold power he won't be held to account. You are happy to accuse your opponents of collusion with foreign enemies but when the actual truth of Milley doing that comes out...suddenly it's different. To me that's pure hypocrisy.

The fact that you won't recognise what happened shows that for all your talk of putting law first really you'll duplicitously say anything for your political tribe.

Basically waffle and double speak to justify anything.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2021 3.48am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 25 Sep 21 9.31am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Whether or not I would support Erdogan on individual policies as opposed to that of other parties I couldn't tell you.

However, what I can tell you is that I regard Erdogan as being terrible and while I'm no leftist I'm definitely no supporter of political Islam either.

So to describe me as a supporter of Erdogan was false.

As for Bolsonaro, If what you say is correct perhaps I would support him....but again, I know little on him or his opposition. That said, I know that in general the left have made disaster zones of central and southern America.

Orban yes, he is an alternative example for Europe and Europeans.

As for your comments on 'conspiracy theories and misinformation'...well yes, it does happen. But each needs to be given its due consideration. However your side just call everything against them 'misinformation' and as they control the bulk of the media they ignore everything. For example, Hunter Biden's emails before the election were called Russian 'misinformation' and dismissed yet now we hear....what we on the right knew all along that they exist and that Biden and the media lied.

Your comments on Milley considering what he did just highlight how nothing you really say holds any weight. He committed treason and directly helped China with information but because the Democrats hold power he won't be held to account. You are happy to accuse your opponents of collusion with foreign enemies but when the actual truth of Milley doing that comes out...suddenly it's different. To me that's pure hypocrisy.

The fact that you won't recognise what happened shows that for all your talk of putting law first really you'll duplicitously say anything for your political tribe.

Basically waffle and double speak to justify anything.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2021 3.48am)

The only "side" I am on is that of the truth!

I condemn misinformation and conspiracy theories, from whatever source they come. No doubt there are some that arise from the left, but the left is very weak and inconsequential in the west, and especially in the USA. That the bulk arise from the right cannot really be challenged. What you, and your kind, regard as the left are nothing of the sort. They are simply centralists like me. Believers in democracy and the rule of law. The Democrats now have a noisy leftish fringe, but it is of little real importance, other than in producing a few reality checks from time to time.

The whataboutism you raise about Hunter Biden relates to a pretty minor transgression, which it appears the media were misled over. Once it has been properly assessed by the security forces, and if a crime has been committed, then it should be prosecuted.

Exactly the same applies to Milley. Let the appropriate people, who can access ALL the facts, investigate and take the appropriate action.

No-one is above the law, but equally no-one should be persecuted by it. I trust those responsible to do their jobs, blind to any political considerations. Some though don't have that trust, and create conspiracy theories around one "side" being protected, when the truth is more about the scale of any misdemeanours.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Sep 21 1.29pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The only "side" I am on is that of the truth!

I condemn misinformation and conspiracy theories, from whatever source they come. No doubt there are some that arise from the left, but the left is very weak and inconsequential in the west, and especially in the USA. That the bulk arise from the right cannot really be challenged. What you, and your kind, regard as the left are nothing of the sort. They are simply centralists like me. Believers in democracy and the rule of law. The Democrats now have a noisy leftish fringe, but it is of little real importance, other than in producing a few reality checks from time to time.

The whataboutism you raise about Hunter Biden relates to a pretty minor transgression, which it appears the media were misled over. Once it has been properly assessed by the security forces, and if a crime has been committed, then it should be prosecuted.

Exactly the same applies to Milley. Let the appropriate people, who can access ALL the facts, investigate and take the appropriate action.

No-one is above the law, but equally no-one should be persecuted by it. I trust those responsible to do their jobs, blind to any political considerations. Some though don't have that trust, and create conspiracy theories around one "side" being protected, when the truth is more about the scale of any misdemeanours.

The only problem being that your truth is not the actual truth, but just your laughably one eyed opinion.
Misinformation is universal.

The Left controlled propaganda in media for a long time, and now they are throwing their toys out of the pram because the Right is catching up.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 27 Sep 21 7.41pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The only problem being that your truth is not the actual truth, but just your laughably one eyed opinion.
Misinformation is universal.

The Left controlled propaganda in media for a long time, and now they are throwing their toys out of the pram because the Right is catching up.

Oh, I am perfectly able to tell the difference between my opinion and the truth. The truth is frequently obscure at best and can be unknowable. The right no more possess it than anyone else.

That my only "side" is the truth is a reflection of my passion to learn and understand. Not that I think I already know everything. That I voice strongly held opinions doesn't change that.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 05 Oct 21 5.00am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Obviously Russell Brand is to the left of me, but not on everything and I've always had a regard for him out of his sincerity.

I've been watching his videos recently and I was very impressed with his take on mainstream media, what's behind it and how it operates using the left media's revisionism of Bush Jnr as a focus point.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2021 5.09am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 05 Oct 21 1.32pm Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

ROTFLMAO

Comedy gold right there

If pomposity was an Olympic sport you would be ahead of Jason Kenny.

That's my opinion anyway.

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Oh, I am perfectly able to tell the difference between my opinion and the truth. The truth is frequently obscure at best and can be unknowable. The right no more possess it than anyone else.

That my only "side" is the truth is a reflection of my passion to learn and understand. Not that I think I already know everything. That I voice strongly held opinions doesn't change that.

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

When conceited septuagenarians opine , best to ignore.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 06 Oct 21 12.14am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

ROTFLMAO

Comedy gold right there

If pomposity was an Olympic sport you would be ahead of Jason Kenny.

That's my opinion anyway.

Which you are, of course, entitled to. I have one of you too, but as trading in ad hominems won't advance anything, I won't share it here.

I found this definition of "pompous", which in my own view could accurately be applied to several posters here. One stands head and shoulders above everyone else, including me, in deserving it. "Affectedly grand, solemn, or self-important. 'a pompous ass who pretends he knows everything'."

As my previous post was actually quite self-deprecating as it directly said I don't "know everything", maybe your opinion is not very accurate.

Feel free to continue the mud slinging if you don't have anything better to do.

 

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