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December 1 2021 7.14pm

Tory sleaze part 2,783

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 04 Nov 21 8.34am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

You wonder who set up the process in the first place? Idiots?

In the House of Lords you can appeal the decision.

I suspect that any company that does not have a work place appeal process will lose at an employment tribunal.

So why on earth did the HOC think this was a good process to strat with.

Good question, though they appear to have thought its worked okay for the previous 11 years in government, and I can't imagine that what it's replaced with will result in more scrutiny and accountability. Which isn't great as politicians are already masters at slinking out of even minor consequence for their various grifts. I'd be quite happy with a slap on the wrist for the kind of sums that end up in their back pocket. It shoes how 'them and us' it's all become.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 04 Nov 21 8.38am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I love this

Excellent precedent

If I ever fall foul of regulations I shall simply point out they arenít perfect. And insist they hold no authority until they are. This will make it so much easier to stay on the right side of the law.

They could at least have a reasonable and robust procedure. It would benefit everyone in the long term.
In the meantime - string him up!

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 04 Nov 21 8.47am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

They could at least have a reasonable and robust procedure. It would benefit everyone in the long term.
In the meantime - string him up!

It appeared to be fit for purpose until the 'wrong' conclusion was reached. In their shoes I like those odds. They're just bringing this in, to get themselves off the hook more often, it's not a matter of integrity or improving anything - these are politicians we're talking about!

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 04 Nov 21 8.48am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Money and power corrupts is older than the Bible. In the Republic Plato wrote that politics naturally attracts individuals who are motivated by personal gain and power. He promoted the idea that philosophers were the best leaders as they were trained in ethics....obviously he himself was one so he had bias.

Still, the point is a strong one. The problem of lobbying and money has always existed and despite these overly pious times no one seems to wish to tackle it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Nov 2021 8.48am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 04 Nov 21 9.00am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

They could at least have a reasonable and robust procedure. It would benefit everyone in the long term.
In the meantime - string him up!

Among the Conservatives who did not back the plan was Sir Peter Bottomley, the longest serving MP in the House of Commons, who told MPs: "We chose the system we are now using. If we want to consider changing it, we do it in a proper way instead of considering it in the way we are now."

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 04 Nov 21 9.55am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Youíre right. Perhaps I can get a job at the famously socialist/liberal Daily Mail.

I look forward to your outrage next time a Labour politician gets caught with his nose in the trough.

Didn't hear you bleating too much when one was recently found guilty of threatening to throw acid in someone's face.

It's a real pig when other posters judge everything you say on preconceptions, isn't it?

 

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 04 Nov 21 10.12am Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Youíre right. Perhaps I can get a job at the famously socialist/liberal Daily Mail.

They seem to have missed the word Tory from the headline.

The real headline should be Shameless Tory MPs Continue with Sleaze.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 04 Nov 21 10.19am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I look forward to your outrage next time a Labour politician gets caught with his nose in the trough.

Didn't hear you bleating too much when one was recently found guilty of threatening to throw acid in someone's face.

It's a real pig when other posters judge everything you say on preconceptions, isn't it?

Ultimately the reigns of power are handed from one party to another so none of this advantages joe public. Excusing certain misdeeds because of a perception that some people would do the same for another party if they were in power results in the exact same outcome for all anyway and is a distraction from the present.

If your argument is that you don't care about integrity or decency because you can point towards examples of opponents you perceive don't, then realise that ultimately you let yourself become a cobbled together caricature of the very worst that you can extract from or imagine of those your dislike.


Edited by BlueJay (04 Nov 2021 10.23am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 04 Nov 21 10.22am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I look forward to your outrage next time a Labour politician gets caught with his nose in the trough.

Didn't hear you bleating too much when one was recently found guilty of threatening to throw acid in someone's face.

It's a real pig when other posters judge everything you say on preconceptions, isn't it?

They are going to ride this as far as they can.....because it's pretty much all they have as Labour are about as popular as manure.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 04 Nov 21 10.26am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Ultimately the reigns of power are handed from one party to another so none of this advantages joe public. Excusing certain misdeeds because of a perception that some people would do the same for another party if they were in power results in the exact same outcome for all anyway and is a distraction from the present.

If your argument is that you don't care about integrity or decency because you can point towards examples of opponents you perceive don't, then realise that ultimately you let yourself become a cobbled together caricature of the very worst that you can extract from or imagine of those your dislike.


Edited by BlueJay (04 Nov 2021 10.23am)

So pointing out the hypocrisy in others is wrong and a distraction? Seems like a self criticism.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 04 Nov 21 10.28am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

They are going to ride this as far as they can.....because it's pretty much all they have as Labour are about as popular as manure.

They whine like stroppy students who still get their clothes bought by their mum.

Some of them never grow up and get jobs in the media.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 04 Nov 21 10.33am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I look forward to your outrage next time a Labour politician gets caught with his nose in the trough.

Didn't hear you bleating too much when one was recently found guilty of threatening to throw acid in someone's face.

It's a real pig when other posters judge everything you say on preconceptions, isn't it?

It's funny you should take that approach, Hrolf, as you could as easily look at it from the other angle. Would there be a clamour to change the rules from a Tory majority parliament if the person in the stocks was a senior Labour MP?

I have not read this whole thread so we may be in agreement on this notwithstanding our differing political colour. But this case seems as clear cut as it is possible to be in politics. There were rules that everyone knew about. They were not just broken by this guy but the breach was flagrant and he profited considerably. Face the music.

The rules may well be bad and require reform. However, there are rather a lot of bad laws about. That is why the law is considered to be always there - we are just in a permanent struggle to find it. Thus, these rules were probably a knee-jerk to cash-for-questions or something and, as with most rushed, politically expedient, knee-jerk laws they are generally made on the hoof and are fundamentally flawed.

Therefore, natural justice does, indeed, dictate a requirement to be properly heard and to have a right of appeal. If these rules are bad they need to be made good. To find themselves.

However, natural justice also provides that rules cannot be applied retrospectively. That principle is sacrosanct. Good government does not allow the executive to alter the rules to help their friends.

The rules need to be amended to bring them into line with natural justice and that requires time and care. When the new law is made, everyone will know what they are, and people will be judged in accordance with those new rules if they commit the breach while they are in place. It's black and white to me. Unarguable.

The one perplexing thing about this is the "why"? Not why he did what he did as that is obvious £££. But why the Tories have risen to put the whole party's head on the block? They are having to come on broadcast media to defend the obviously indefensible and have dragged down the reputation of their government. They are also bringing in his wife's suicide and conflating the two issues which is something of a new low.

But there was no need. Their majority is huge and the opposition fractious and of little threat. Have him take his 30 days; that takes us up to the party season; by the New Year the story will be forgotten chip wrap. No-one will care. It would not have impacted at all on the one element they really care about - maintenance of power.

People might care now.

Very odd.

 

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