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May 31 2023 12.51am

CONservative government incompetence.

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View Jacey's Profile Jacey Flag 29 Jan 23 1.49pm Send a Private Message to Jacey Add Jacey as a friend

Changes his views to court public opinion at a drop of a hat
What exactly does this untrustworthy character stand for ??

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Edited by Jacey (29 Jan 2023 1.52pm)

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 29 Jan 23 2.39pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Jacey

Changes his views to court public opinion at a drop of a hat
What exactly does this untrustworthy character stand for ??

[Link]


[Link]


Edited by Jacey (29 Jan 2023 1.52pm)

This thread is about CONservative Government incompetence. I believe there is a thread for Sir Keir should you wish to avail yourself of that.

So let's talk about the ex Party Chair, who didn't let two successive Prime Ministers know that he was under investigation for his tax issues and was later fined a massive £1.1m by HMRC. Yet he didn't see it as a relevant issue to discuss when he became the boss of, er, HMRC. Awkward.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jan 23 2.00am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Ireland is a good example of social and neo liberalism's rule in action since it took over from social conservativism. From the 1960s from trough to peak;


- the suicide rate rose 655%
- homicide rate rose 609%
- alcohol consumption rose 128%
- drug deaths rose 6,115%
- fertility rate fell 58%.

These negative cultural trends can be seen across the west and sped up as economic development accelerated.

The media being dominated by social liberals has left the public with scant recognition let alone vocal opposition to these trends.

The indoctrination had pretty much been total....yet the actual statistics have never supported the irrational direction we have followed.

They don't have any answers just ever more onward and myths of jam tomorrow.

Total fecking disaster for the common people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 2.02am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 30 Jan 23 10.51am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Let's get back to CONservative Government incompetence

It looks like some Tories are scenting blood, seeing Sunak as holed beneath the waterline. Notice how BoJo is back strutting his stuff. It seems likely he wants to wrest back control.

When will the bloomin Government ever have time to actually govern and deal with the total mess it has dragged us into. Maybe it's just easier to spend its time on internal battles.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jan 23 11.43am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Ireland is a good example of social and neo liberalism's rule in action since it took over from social conservativism. From the 1960s from trough to peak;


- the suicide rate rose 655%
- homicide rate rose 609%
- alcohol consumption rose 128%
- drug deaths rose 6,115%
- fertility rate fell 58%.

These negative cultural trends can be seen across the west and sped up as economic development accelerated.

The media being dominated by social liberals has left the public with scant recognition let alone vocal opposition to these trends.

The indoctrination had pretty much been total....yet the actual statistics have never supported the irrational direction we have followed.

They don't have any answers just ever more onward and myths of jam tomorrow.

Total fecking disaster for the common people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 2.02am)

Ireland is probably not the best example as there was so much religious abuse and sex abuse, institutional abuse, plus complete corruption and coercive control. Where I live there was still a Magdalene laundry in the 90s.
However, Ireland is always trying to be the most virtuous of countries now, which personally I find largely sickening. We're in deep dodo with housing and immigration. We've reached the limit.
Still totally corrupt at a political level - I used to go to a cafe up the road called the Banana Republic - it was referring to Ireland itself. The politicians are parodies of themselves. I wouldn't even know where to start to highlight the corruption - it's endemic. I'd need an essay.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 30 Jan 23 1.05pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Ireland is a good example of social and neo liberalism's rule in action since it took over from social conservativism. From the 1960s from trough to peak;


- the suicide rate rose 655%
- homicide rate rose 609%
- alcohol consumption rose 128%
- drug deaths rose 6,115%
- fertility rate fell 58%.

These negative cultural trends can be seen across the west and sped up as economic development accelerated.

The media being dominated by social liberals has left the public with scant recognition let alone vocal opposition to these trends.

The indoctrination had pretty much been total....yet the actual statistics have never supported the irrational direction we have followed.

They don't have any answers just ever more onward and myths of jam tomorrow.

Total fecking disaster for the common people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 2.02am)

At which point are you arguing that Ireland became a socially liberal place? Because I really hope it's not the 1960s or anything close to that.

This is just a random pick & mix of statistics, over a huge time period, without any context around them, and then whatever conclusion you want to make.

The fertility rate fell in a country where contraception and abortion were illegal until the 80s and beyond... is that surprising?

Most of the above could be attributed to Ireland's escape from being utterly dominated by the Catholic Church and the freedom that came with that for much of the population.

I don't know many Irish people who'd agree with you that their society has got worse, culturally or otherwise, since the 1960s.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jan 23 1.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Ireland is probably not the best example as there was so much religious abuse and sex abuse, institutional abuse, plus complete corruption and coercive control. Where I live there was still a Magdalene laundry in the 90s.
However, Ireland is always trying to be the most virtuous of countries now, which personally I find largely sickening. We're in deep dodo with housing and immigration. We've reached the limit.
Still totally corrupt at a political level - I used to go to a cafe up the road called the Banana Republic - it was referring to Ireland itself. The politicians are parodies of themselves. I wouldn't even know where to start to highlight the corruption - it's endemic. I'd need an essay.

I would pretty much agree with all of that.

The only thing I would add would be the point that institutional abuse, while rightly condemned by any right thinking person and the Church and other institutions response being terrible it was not on a scale which could affect these figures significantly. In other words, not all priests were fiddling kids by any means.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jan 23 1.44pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

At which point are you arguing that Ireland became a socially liberal place? Because I really hope it's not the 1960s or anything close to that.

As I stated, the figures are from the low point in the sixties to the current day. While I would say that Ireland has been socially liberal for decades now the process is obviously a matter of degrees as generational shift occurs with ongoing neo and social liberal indoctrination from birth to adulthood.

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

This is just a random pick & mix of statistics, over a huge time period, without any context around them, and then whatever conclusion you want to make.

I disagree. I provided the context and all the statistics are sociological in nature just as the ruling philosophy has its sociological component.

While I would agree that a rise in these statistics would have occurred for various reasons...drug availability for example. I also regard a dismissal of liberalism's corrosive affects as burying heads in the sand.

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The fertility rate fell in a country where contraception and abortion were illegal until the 80s and beyond... is that surprising?

I would argue that the pill has had both a positive but also a largely ignored negative affect upon society.

If someone thinks about it I'd argue that sociologically it's a net negative for society in many ways.

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Most of the above could be attributed to Ireland's escape from being utterly dominated by the Catholic Church and the freedom that came with that for much of the population.

I suggest that the way you have phrased that suggests a bias that doesn't reflect the affects that have resulted. I'm not personally religious though I was raised within that cultural sphere as most of those of a certain age were.

I will again point out the disgusting scandals that we all are aware of and condemn.

However, let it not be forgotten that for the vast majority the Church played a massively stablising influence in people's lives and provided a moral compass that today's absence has left many comparatively directionless.

I think the loss of these stablising forces are playing out in front of many of us. I think many of us recognise that now.


Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don't know many Irish people who'd agree with you that their society has got worse, culturally or otherwise, since the 1960s.


Media indoctrination plays a large part. An industry of social liberals pumps a one eyed vision of the world into people's brains non stop and without any allowed counter narrative.

However, I would point to the significant percent of people with mental illness compared to the past, prescription drug dependencies and surveys on happiness for example.....With women it's a statistical fact that they were happier before feminism....which is the high priest of social liberalism.

I would argue that most of the later affects of feminism benefited middle class women far more than it ever did the majority of them and has in fact worsened their lives....Again, both the economic and social surveys tend to bare that out.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 1.50pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 30 Jan 23 2.24pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As I stated, the figures are from the low point in the sixties to the current day. While I would say that Ireland has been socially liberal for decades now the process is obviously a matter of degrees as generational shift occurs with ongoing neo and social liberal indoctrination from birth to adulthood.

I disagree. I provided the context and all the statistics are sociological in nature just as the ruling philosophy has its sociological component. While I would agree that a rise in these statistics would have occurred for various reasons...drug availability for example. I also regard a dismissal of liberalism's corrosive affects as burying heads in the sand.

I would argue that the pill has had both a positive but also a largely ignored negative affect upon society. If someone thinks about it I'd argue that sociologically it's a net negative for society in many ways.


I suggest that the way you have phrased that suggests a bias that doesn't reflect the affects that have resulted. I'm not personally religious though I was raised within that cultural sphere as most of those of a certain age were. I will again point out the disgusting scandals that we all are aware of and condemn. However, let it not be forgotten that for the vast majority the Church played a massively stabilising influence in people's lives and provided a moral compass that today's absence has left many comparatively directionless. I think the loss of these stabilising forces are playing out in front of many of us. I think many of us recognise that now.

Media indoctrination plays a large part. An industry of social liberals pumps a one eyed vision of the world into people's brains non stop and without any allowed counter narrative. However, I would point to the significant percent of people with mental illness compared to the past, prescription drug dependencies and surveys on happiness for example.....With women it's a statistical fact that they were happier before feminism....which is the high priest of social liberalism. I would argue that most of the later affects of feminism benefited middle class women far more than it ever did the majority of them and has in fact worsened their lives....Again, both the economic and social surveys tend to bare that out.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 1.50pm)

You're talking about a few specific societal changes in an 80-year window without any detail in between - I think it's a real stretch to draw any meaningful conclusion from that sort of macro-data, particularly when as you say, many of the changes were trends which would have happened anyway and can be attributed to a whole host of factors.

The only context is 'this country has changed in the last 80 years' - there is no way to strip all other context away and appoint that change to a difference in political outlook specifically and conclusively.


I don't think giving people the ability to decide when they do and don't have children could ever be considered a negative, societally or otherwise.

I agree with you that the church played a useful role in teaching morality, which needs replacing, but it was also a horrendously stifling, intrusive and as you say abusive organisation, particularly in the context of Ireland within the time period we're discussing.

I think you're bottom paragraph is getting into 'I know what's best for you' territory - anyone who disagrees is indoctrinated, anyone who doesn't isn't... anyone can make that claim.

That is certainly not a statistical fact - you may have found a statistic which supports that view in a certain place, at a certain time and amongst a certain section of women, but that does not make it a fact you could extrapolate across the world and across history.


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 30 Jan 23 7.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You're talking about a few specific societal changes in an 80-year window without any detail in between - I think it's a real stretch to draw any meaningful conclusion from that sort of macro-data, particularly when as you say, many of the changes were trends which would have happened anyway and can be attributed to a whole host of factors.

The only context is 'this country has changed in the last 80 years' - there is no way to strip all other context away and appoint that change to a difference in political outlook specifically and conclusively.


I don't think giving people the ability to decide when they do and don't have children could ever be considered a negative, societally or otherwise.

I agree with you that the church played a useful role in teaching morality, which needs replacing, but it was also a horrendously stifling, intrusive and as you say abusive organisation, particularly in the context of Ireland within the time period we're discussing.

I think you're bottom paragraph is getting into 'I know what's best for you' territory - anyone who disagrees is indoctrinated, anyone who doesn't isn't... anyone can make that claim.

That is certainly not a statistical fact - you may have found a statistic which supports that view in a certain place, at a certain time and amongst a certain section of women, but that does not make it a fact you could extrapolate across the world and across history.


While it's true that there is far more detail to each individual social metric, many books in fact, to me the summary conclusions are pretty obvious and accurate.

You are of course at liberty to disagree.

Something else that neo 'liberalism' is doing its damnest to censor as well.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 30 Jan 23 7.50pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

It looks like when the tories are called s*** it sticks with no real reason why apart from the nhs not performing or pay rises really not whatís expected or perceived to be high enough. When the left are put to task you need evidence, facts, figures etc. I am so happy that the left might get power and the reality of low level communism/ socialism will hit these people hard in the face, and defo the pocket. The future isnít rosy but it will be very painful for many.

 

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View stancummins's Profile stancummins Flag 30 Jan 23 8.02pm Send a Private Message to stancummins Add stancummins as a friend

yes and we heard all that cobblers before 1997 and then ended up with over 10 years of economic growth

 

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