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October 2 2022 11.06am

Let's Kick Politics out of Football ?

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 13 Mar 22 11.47am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


....either that or allow ball games in the debate chamber at Westminster.

While i agree the invasion of Ukraine was heinous and monstrous,.... i do not recall the same outcry from the Media for the invasions of Iraq or Afghanistan ?

And agreed, the human-rights of LGBT people were abused in the past and i would support their equality and respect before the law.

And the suffering of peoples under slavery in the past was awful. Africans across the Atlantic, Celtic-Brits to Rome or Irish kids traded by Vikings to Byzantium.

But lets project ourselves forward to 2030. What crusades, cavalcades and other flags will be filling up the time that should be otherwise used to discuss whether that Referee performed badly again ?

Take one option : remove ALL the politics, or overload us with a bit more.... the brutalized peoples of East Timor, the border dispute in Nogorno-Karabac, Catalan Independence, Female Genital Mutilation, Human Rights in Saudi.....etc etc.

Football, the clue is in the name ?

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 13 Mar 22 11.59am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

It's not just about sanctions and football.

Why did RA buy Chelsea, why have the Saudi's bought Newcastle and the Qatari's are so keen on hosting the world cup a small country that has had zero impact on the footballing world?

Sport and politics are linked. Countries use sport to promote themselves and to punish others when it suits them.

I don't like it but they all do it, Moscow 1980 no USA, Los Angels 1984 no USSR, no Africans at one due to a protest about South Africa etc.

Sport is a high profile way or promoting your agenda.

 


One more point

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 13 Mar 22 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio


....either that or allow ball games in the debate chamber at Westminster.

While i agree the invasion of Ukraine was heinous and monstrous,.... i do not recall the same outcry from the Media for the invasions of Iraq or Afghanistan?

And agreed, the human-rights of LGBT people were abused in the past and i would support their equality and respect before the law.

And the suffering of peoples under slavery in the past was awful. Africans across the Atlantic, Celtic-Brits to Rome or Irish kids traded by Vikings to Byzantium.

But lets project ourselves forward to 2030. What crusades, cavalcades and other flags will be filling up the time that should be otherwise used to discuss whether that Referee performed badly again ?

Take one option : remove ALL the politics, or overload us with a bit more.... the brutalized peoples of East Timor, the border dispute in Nogorno-Karabac, Catalan Independence, Female Genital Mutilation, Human Rights in Saudi.....etc etc.

Football, the clue is in the name ?

Steady on Palazio old chap. A bit extreme, but I think I get your point. Of course there's more media attention to the Russian war on Ukraine than those to which you refer, because they're attacking a European ally and this country and others could easily be dragged in. Doesn't bear thinking about.

I've read at least three articles in the paper this morning commenting that arguments about trivial issues such as, say, about the standard of refereeing, seem futile in the face of what's going on in Ukraine.

 


Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 13 Mar 22 12.24pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

you either a) remove ALL the politics or else b) you must simply shrug when the bandwagon is jumped on by people you do not agree with....

remember Hitler and all the politics for the Berlin Olympics in 1936 ?


The original Greek city States were in a constant state of War. And they expunged all the politics in order to Stage their Olympic Games....three thousand years ago. We seem to have forgotten the lessons from History.

----------------------------------

choose one option : a) get Gary Linekar to shutup with all his crusades of the moral high ground

or

b) allow the politics to infiltrate all other areas of public discourse.......Before he removes the apple Souffle from the oven, Jamie Oliver pauses for a minutes silence. In respect for the high numbers of our Prison population with learning disabilities. Including dyslexia that Jamie himself has.

And on the next episode of Wheeler-Dealers, before replacing a tyre, Mike will wave a flag for the Stateless Nation of Kurdistan. Nobody can deny the brutal treatment of women & children in that State just after the Gulf War.
----------------------------------------

The Romans used Sport and public spectacle as a tool of the political dark arts. And yet the brutality of their regime was legendary.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Mar 2022 12.50pm)

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Mar 22 1.15pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Agree with the sentiment of this thread.

It's not an attack on any of the issues involved but they are societal issues not exclusively footballing ones. The are a few thing that really bother me about this:

1. I think it would be ridiculous to say that the motivations behind these 'campaigns', if you will, within football are based solely on humanitarian motivations. People aren't f****ing stupid, there is obviously some sort of commercial value within the backing of aforementioned movements if not at least protection from 'cancel culture'. Hence media companies jumping wholeheartedly on any bandwagons.

2. Because of reason 1. there are two obvious negative results in my eyes, the first being the cheapening of the actual causes/messages themselves and the second being the demonising of the people on which these businesses rely, football fans. I realise that sounds like a strong statement but I, for instance, do not feel the need to be lectured on, or defined by any particular movement dependant on where I shop for instance. If Morrisons (closest proximity to me) were to start putting 'let's kick homophobia out of shopping' banners and rainbow flags everywhere it would get on my nerves to be quite honest and I may walk the extra 5 mins to Asda or Sainsburys so I can (most likely fail in) try to remember what the wife wants/has demanded for dinner. I do like companies which use ethical practices etc and I think they are worth my custom as I can see the benefits. I am not however likely to choose a more expensive product over another simply because one sticks a slogan or symbol on their packaging for, what I would perceive to be, purely financial gain.

3. It's football. Football fans have long been the pantomime villains in society and quite frankly the culture has moved on significantly. I can honestly say I could not conjure up an anecdote immediately regarding racism/nazism/homophobia etc. at Palace, I do go to the Den a lot however and that is a different story, and that falls into the realms of never-ending dimwittery you hear down there and tbh even then it's few and far between. That doesn't make it OK and I do not feel as though I provide the fairest insight given I am a young-ish White bloke etc. I would however argue that having Russian Oligarchs and Saudi Billionaires running clubs is of far more concern. Ukraine needs no explaining and didn't the Saudis execute something like 100 people yesterday? Even then though, they are military and political concerns, not sporting ones.

Football is the national sport, it does have a huge following and garner massive public attention, but that is because of what it is. IMHO the further we descend into some sort of Orwellian nightmare which focuses exclusively on conditioning people as opposed to educating or even just encouraging them the more I fear for society. As previously mentioned, people aren't as stupid as many would think, they know that it is all technically propaganda and hence they are becoming resistant to it, and rightfully so. Trying to badge this as a question of morality is ludicrous. If people went around with buckets for humanitarian causes, whatever they may be, all day long I'd happily chuck some change in them all then go on to watch the football, with far more enthusiasm then I would show for the waving of flags, banners, rainbow laces and kneeling. I'd much rather hand over my hard earned cash to support causes than have them hijack my weekend.

Just my two cents as always.

Edited by Nicholas91 (13 Mar 2022 1.17pm)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 13 Mar 22 1.36pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Good points Nuicholas91 and I agree that I do not need celebrities and corporates to lecture me on their concerns.

Most global corporates have skeletons in their closet e.g. child labour, poor safety, lack of union recognition or workers rights etc. And yet they feel the need to moralise to the public.

 


One more point

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Mar 22 1.48pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

The withdrawal of broadcasting sporting rights in Russia over Ukraine is a very specific action intended to try to separate the Putin regime from the Russian people.

I disagree with it. But not because it is a political action. I think it's actually a missed opportunity.

If the Russian people want to watch the PL, then let them. It's going to be one of the only things they now see which isn't Putin propaganda. Let them see the Uranian flags. Messages on shirts and around the ground. Let the questions be asked.

Every journey starts with a single step. The PL could be taking it.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Mar 22 2.05pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Good points Nuicholas91 and I agree that I do not need celebrities and corporates to lecture me on their concerns.

Most global corporates have skeletons in their closet e.g. child labour, poor safety, lack of union recognition or workers rights etc. And yet they feel the need to moralise to the public.

Yes another excellent point.

I know I went on a massive rant earlier but I really do struggle to take the messages seriously, not within themselves but in the context of who is promoting them. I fail to believe it is in the interests of anyone's hearts more so or even close to their pockets and thus it is not the messages themselves that people take issue with (I would hope not in any case) it is the reasoning/motivation behind the never ending bombardment. Hence, they have hijacked something many people hold most valuable in their lives, football.

Am I against all forms of war, racism, homophobia so on and so forth etc. Yes of course. Do I go to football on the weekend purely to watch my team, the sport I love, socialise, bond with others and enjoy myself? I most certainly do. However my passion for football is what is being abused and weaponized for ulterior motives.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Mar 22 2.08pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The withdrawal of broadcasting sporting rights in Russia over Ukraine is a very specific action intended to try to separate the Putin regime from the Russian people.

I disagree with it. But not because it is a political action. I think it's actually a missed opportunity.

If the Russian people want to watch the PL, then let them. It's going to be one of the only things they now see which isn't Putin propaganda. Let them see the Uranian flags. Messages on shirts and around the ground. Let the questions be asked.

Every journey starts with a single step. The PL could be taking it.

I would combat that, as a suggestion WE not an informed and well evidenced opinion, by saying that perhaps the reduction of Russia to Pariah status, financially weakening them and the resultant affects on the population, would most likely be the motivation here and probably far more effective than whatever can be played off as 'Western Propaganda' or I'm guessing easily censored by the state.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 13 Mar 22 3.00pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

is anybody else irked by grumpy Graeme Souness wearing some stupid logo on his lapel ? And it mirrored by all the other pundits. Government approved noble causes.

How about we cover him in 300 different logo's ? just for the sake of balance ? Make sure we include the charities for the kids orphaned by the bombing of Dresden.

Charities ? And can we give a separate treatment to the victims of Saddam Hussein a) before and b) after he was 'friends' with the West ?

a 1991 victim of Saddam....oh boo hoo, poor you. Tons of publicity.
a 1977 victim of Saddam......shhh, keep your mouth shut and go away.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Mar 2022 3.10pm)

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 13 Mar 22 3.08pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Association football and politics are connected in club identities, clashes, and footballers who choose a career in politics. Association football has played a role in maintaining the differences which give each European country a distinct identity, while strengthening the bonds that bind Europe together.

According to Macon Benoit, European football underwent a massive transformation during the World War II era (193345). The game's sharp rise in popularity came at a time of high political intensity, leading to football's politicization.

Benoit writes that during this period, European football began to embody four main characteristics: 1) an agent of international relations, in the sense that the foreign policies of European nations became articulated in matches; 2) a source of political propaganda, as football was used to build national pride and establish the legitimacy of political movements; 3) a tool for social pacification; football gave people a place to focus their energy that was not political, and 4) an avenue for protest; mass gatherings at matches gave spectators a forum for the expression of identity and political sentiments.European football stadiums have assumed other roles as places of refuge and sites of political uprisings and terrorist attacks.

As European politics and relations have changed, football has remained a global means of political expression.

I believe the HF has been a strong voice for morality and is a good example of how football and politics are linked by the concept that localities find their voices in a club environment.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 13 Mar 22 3.17pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I believe the HF has been a strong voice for morality and is a good example of how football and politics are linked by the concept that localities find their voices in a club environment.

i will concede that the HF supporting the victims of the Croydon Tramlink accident is ok. But their opinions on, say, the Israel/Palestine conflict ? it is an anachronism.

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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