You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Harris and Blitzer, Chelsea
May 20 2022 4.28am

Harris and Blitzer, Chelsea

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 7 of 12 < 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 >

 

View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 29 Mar 22 5.24pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider


All these figures being banded about re shareholdings are very woolly. The press rarely gets this sort of information correct.
My only concern is that it would appear Textor was deeply in to Fubo which has suffered a dramatic drop in value since last summer. Their price has fallen from c. /share last summer to today. Market cap billion to billion. It would appear he had 10% of the stock but hopefully he sold enough to put his c. £89million into Palace. His net asset value last summer was showing at 0m. So this will have gone south since if he still has a stake in Fubo.
It would appear he is not so heavily in Fubo now but it is hard to know. I just hope he has got enough funds set aside to take us forward and also his involvement and shareholding in Botafogo the Brazilian club, but it is hard to see where.


Edited by dreamwaverider (29 Mar 2022 5.14pm)

Agree with all this. I think we're saying essentially the same thing, but my interpretation verged towards the optimistic whereas perhaps yours leans towards a more sober interpretation of the realities. What is clear, and we both agree on, is that Textor isn't close to "football magnate wealthy" and the wealth he does have is largely paper, subject to fluctuations in value that can be severe. Those who think, if he does add to his holding and becomes the controlling shareholder at Palace, that we're in for a period of significant investment are probably going to be severely disappointed. The upside is that there's no reason to think the club won't continue to be well run by Parish if Textor takes over the lead, but if anything the purse strings may be even more tightly managed than they are now. As we've both said, whatever they choose to spend or not, Harris and Blitzer are seriously wealthy. At a minimum, that gives us security. Textor is not in their league.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 29 Mar 22 6.03pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

This question is the elephant in the room and it needs answering. Fortunately, it's fairly easy to answer.

Look, by and large people have always wanted to buy football clubs despite the fact that they've never made money for the buyer. Chelsea, for just one example, is going to cost some party or other a fortune to buy and even more to run, yet there are six bidders competing to jump in. Put a PL club on the market and mostly, it sells.

Based on all these long-proven realities, I think we can all grasp and accept that people don't buy football clubs because they think it's a sound financial investment on which they're going to make a profit. They know that's not the case.

So, why would anyone buy a football club? Simple. For the same reason today that people have bought football clubs since the Football League began. It used to be called "ego". Owning the local football club was how the local businessman made his mark in the community; showed he'd arrived. It was a high profile move for someone who liked a bit of show.

Now, ego is just as likely to be called "sportshwashing". Football club ownership is a brand for corporate egos rather than individual ones. It's a way companies, or even countries, or very wealthy individuals who own one or the other flex their financial muscle and demonstrate the power of their brand(s) on the commercial landscape.

Today, if you own a PL club you're not big in your local community like you once were. You're big in the whole world. You think Leicester City aren't well supported in Thailand, for instance? And that's an attractive proposition to a great many prospective buyers.

So yes, you lose cash money when you buy a club. But you get an awful lot of priceless exposure in return. Why spend your money on advertising and media when you could just own an FC instead and it'll do an even better job of exposing your brand/country/ego/company? Do you think the Saudis could buy through media channels, minutes on TV, and pages in magazines what they get from owning Newcastle United? Not a chance.

Whoever buys into Palace won't be doing it to make a profit. Let's put it this way: Had you ever heard of Facebank or John Textor before last August? I doubt it. But you have now.

I can understand what you are saying if your are the one making the decisions, But H & B are just going to be bit part players.

 


Never be Two Faced, Always Say What You Think, keep Chilled, Man

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 29 Mar 22 7.07pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

I can understand what you are saying if your are the one making the decisions, But H & B are just going to be bit part players.

In Chelsea, yes. But if you track the history of Harris and Blitzer (and HBSE) it's clear that they are not cut from that cloth. For them, it's not ego. They historically view their investment in sports teams as just that; an investment. Their approach has been to buy low-priced assets, stabilize them, and sell them on for a much higher price after 3-5 years. They acquired the Sixers for $200 million. They're presently valued at $700 million. What they've done with Palace is completely consistent with this model. When they bought in, the club was worth around £150 million. Today, it's worth around £225 million give or take.

Chelsea, of course, is a different kettle of fish so you'd be right to ask why would they be interested in them? The best answer I can come up with is that their real long-term strategy and underlying goal is owning an NFL franchise, not Chelsea. So they don't need and they're not looking to own a majority share in the club. This (a London team) seems unlikely anytime soon (the NFL has openly expressed reservations about placing a team outside mainland USA in the near future) but if true, having a holding in Chelsea might be considered a suitable vehicle to further that cause. If their bid is successful, what price the new Stamford Bridge (or its replacement elsewhere) is, like Spurs, an NFL-ready facility with partial investment from source? And let's be honest, Chelsea would be a pretty good twin for an incoming central London NFL team, arguably much more so than Palace.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 29 Mar 22 10.13pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

In Chelsea, yes. But if you track the history of Harris and Blitzer (and HBSE) it's clear that they are not cut from that cloth. For them, it's not ego. They historically view their investment in sports teams as just that; an investment. Their approach has been to buy low-priced assets, stabilize them, and sell them on for a much higher price after 3-5 years. They acquired the Sixers for 0 million. They're presently valued at 0 million. What they've done with Palace is completely consistent with this model. When they bought in, the club was worth around £150 million. Today, it's worth around £225 million give or take.

Chelsea, of course, is a different kettle of fish so you'd be right to ask why would they be interested in them? The best answer I can come up with is that their real long-term strategy and underlying goal is owning an NFL franchise, not Chelsea. So they don't need and they're not looking to own a majority share in the club. This (a London team) seems unlikely anytime soon (the NFL has openly expressed reservations about placing a team outside mainland USA in the near future) but if true, having a holding in Chelsea might be considered a suitable vehicle to further that cause. If their bid is successful, what price the new Stamford Bridge (or its replacement elsewhere) is, like Spurs, an NFL-ready facility with partial investment from source? And let's be honest, Chelsea would be a pretty good twin for an incoming central London NFL team, arguably much more so than Palace.

I just can’t see NFL going big here. Especially with teams from USA. Its all for the money.
Remember that film ‘show me the money’
Not sure there’s going to be enough to go round moving forward.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 29 Mar 22 10.32pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Been chewing on the H&B move for Chelsea. Got to say I’m deeply unhappy about what these guys are up to. They bought into us and now they are trying for an upgrade to Chelsea. I posted on here a couple of seasons ago that these guys are tight arsed investors all wrong for football. Just chasing the money. I got a fair bit of abuse at the time. Now watch them. It’s not good this changing camps. If we are all not careful this could all get very messy. Whatever happens, they should be toast with us now. It’s a very difficult situation for SP. I wish him luck. I also hope they get torch d on the sale of their shares in Palace.
SP just be very careful moving forward. I strongly advise you not to let an American gain control of our club. Stay strong, stay safe and although I don’t need to remind you, remember why you got involved. Your love for our club. You’re doing a great job. Just be careful.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Vincehair's Profile Vincehair Flag London 30 Mar 22 8.50am Send a Private Message to Vincehair Add Vincehair as a friend

I think Parish owns 18% of shares so acquiring the Harris and Blitzer 22% would give him equal holding as Textor which would be ideal outcome. If Parish can get them cheap or even free due to the time constraints then all the better

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 30 Mar 22 9.38am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

I just can’t see NFL going big here. Especially with teams from USA. Its all for the money.
Remember that film ‘show me the money’
Not sure there’s going to be enough to go round moving forward.

Well, you have much in common with the NFL itself which, at least for the forseeable future, can't see the NFL being ready to come here either. So you're right about that.

I think an NFL team WILL come here one day, but that's probably 20 years or so into the future. These guys are savvy; they're not going to make the move until they've really laid a platform for it to be successful. And having one isolated team in Europe isn't that. Part building Spurs' stadium, playing multiple games in London every year, next season expanding overseas games into other European countries are all part of laying the path but it's a long road to build and the NFL is patient and sensible.

When the NFL does expand into Europe, it won't be with just a London team. I'd expect five teams across Europe to be created simultaneously with thus, a European division from day one. The league knows that's the way to do it for a whole variety of reasons. And as I said, that's probably at least 20 years away. But that's almost without doubt the long term direction of travel.

Edited by sydtheeagle (30 Mar 2022 9.39am)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 30 Mar 22 9.44am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Got to say I’m deeply unhappy about what these guys are up to. They bought into us and now they are trying for an upgrade to Chelsea. I posted on here a couple of seasons ago that these guys are tight arsed investors all wrong for football. Just chasing the money.

You are right, but it completely mystifies me why you are unhappy about it.

Harris and Blitzer are INVESTORS. It says that on the tin. It's what they do. They have never, ever pretended to be anything else. And we (Palace) were more than happy to have them invest in us at a time when we needed investment. They did us a favour (buying in) and we've done them a favour (as the value of the club has increased). Everybody won. That's how it's supposed to be. The investor benefits from a shrewd investment and good management. The business benefits from the investment. What the hell is there to be unhappy about?

And how can they be "all wrong for football" when, since they invested, almost everything that has happened at Palace has been good? Do you think fans make better owners than serious investors? Do you want Simon Jordan or Mark Goldberg back?

Sorry to be blunt, but you statements strike me as nonsensical. We may never have warmed to Harris and Blitzer but we have absolutely nothing to excoriate them for.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Omph's Profile Omph Flag Liverpool 30 Mar 22 10.08am Send a Private Message to Omph Add Omph as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

You are right, but it completely mystifies me why you are unhappy about it.

Harris and Blitzer are INVESTORS. It says that on the tin. It's what they do. They have never, ever pretended to be anything else. And we (Palace) were more than happy to have them invest in us at a time when we needed investment. They did us a favour (buying in) and we've done them a favour (as the value of the club has increased). Everybody won. That's how it's supposed to be. The investor benefits from a shrewd investment and good management. The business benefits from the investment. What the hell is there to be unhappy about?

And how can they be "all wrong for football" when, since they invested, almost everything that has happened at Palace has been good? Do you think fans make better owners than serious investors? Do you want Simon Jordan or Mark Goldberg back?

Sorry to be blunt, but you statements strike me as nonsensical. We may never have warmed to Harris and Blitzer but we have absolutely nothing to excoriate them for.

Quite agree.

They haven't been sugar daddies but truthfully I'd get pretty uncomfortable should Palace turn into a sugar daddy club. I'd be more than happy if they were replaced - if need be - like for like with experienced sports investors who would follow their lead in supporting the club financially in the background to allow the club to grow sustainably. It's not exactly the Palace way but steady incremental growth rather attracts me!

We will learn more I guess when the next set of accounts come out but I very much suspect that we have done alright through H and B in the past couple of seasons with cash being injected to support us through COVID and at a time when the squad value was minimal.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 30 Mar 22 3.48pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Omph

Quite agree.

They haven't been sugar daddies but truthfully I'd get pretty uncomfortable should Palace turn into a sugar daddy club. I'd be more than happy if they were replaced - if need be - like for like with experienced sports investors who would follow their lead in supporting the club financially in the background to allow the club to grow sustainably. It's not exactly the Palace way but steady incremental growth rather attracts me!

We will learn more I guess when the next set of accounts come out but I very much suspect that we have done alright through H and B in the past couple of seasons with cash being injected to support us through COVID and at a time when the squad value was minimal.

Well said, Oomph. I was genuinely starting to despair and wonder if there was any common sense or understanding at all in the world of football fans. I sometimes think they are totally ignorant of even the most basic principles of running a sound business and genuinely believe that a fly-by-night, over-leveraged sugar daddy is the route to the promised land. You'd think by now, based on recent experience alone, that Palace supporters above all others would have figured out that road leads to self-destruction.

We should be celebrating what Harris and Blitzer have done to stabilise and develop the club. Instead, some are criticising them for what amounts to not being Simon Jordan. It's just utter madness. Can you imagine being deeply unhappy about having a successful, responsible investor? No, you can't. Nor can I.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 30 Mar 22 4.50pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

You are right, but it completely mystifies me why you are unhappy about it.

Harris and Blitzer are INVESTORS. It says that on the tin. It's what they do. They have never, ever pretended to be anything else. And we (Palace) were more than happy to have them invest in us at a time when we needed investment. They did us a favour (buying in) and we've done them a favour (as the value of the club has increased). Everybody won. That's how it's supposed to be. The investor benefits from a shrewd investment and good management. The business benefits from the investment. What the hell is there to be unhappy about?

And how can they be "all wrong for football" when, since they invested, almost everything that has happened at Palace has been good? Do you think fans make better owners than serious investors? Do you want Simon Jordan or Mark Goldberg back?

Sorry to be blunt, but you statements strike me as nonsensical. We may never have warmed to Harris and Blitzer but we have absolutely nothing to excoriate them for.

syd, as often happens reading your posts, you have shown me the light and clarified the situation in my head. When you look at it as you have, it all makes sense. As I said, I had been chewing on it and hadn’t got there.
My only remaining concern should H&B move on is who takes their shares and in what capacity. As I said earlier it will all come out in the course of time, and it goes without saying I hope it continues to work out well for our club.
Thanks.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Mar 22 6.11pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Still, if we did get some filthy lucre a new 50,000 stadium would be nice. Or even a new stand or two or three.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 7 of 12 < 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Palace Talk > Harris and Blitzer, Chelsea