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November 27 2022 3.48pm

Black Managers

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 25 Oct 22 3.10pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Interesting article from PV on the BBC website.

[Link]

What I found interesting is that only 14% of qualified coaches are black now I saw a BBC program about 10 years ago and back then that was roughly the figure quoted and indeed Les Ferdinand says the FA efforts have made no difference.

Well before we can have more black managers we need them to qualify as coaches you would not interview a medical student for a doctors position you would tell him come back when you are qualified.

So why don't black players and black people in general take the coaching badges?

Where I part company from PV and Sir Les is they say black players need more encouragement

"There is a lack of opportunity there. There is a lack of connection from black players to connect ourselves a little bit more with people who are making the decisions.

Fine, there is also a thing called getting off your backside and networking with the decision makers, something PV clearly did but others haven't. For every vacancy there are hundreds who are qualified and would love the job so why should a recruiter have to encourage someone. You have to want the job.

Thoughts


Edited by Badger11 (25 Oct 2022 3.14pm)

 


One more point

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 25 Oct 22 5.41pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

I noticed that it's rare enough for African national teams to have black managers. That can't be helpful. Personally, I don't see a barrier to someone who's good enough in England regardless of colour. However, I suspect things are not exactly the same worldwide.

 


Patrick Vieira's
Red and Blue Army!

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 25 Oct 22 5.56pm Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

If a manager is good enough a top side would take them like a shot, unfortunately nobody has proved good enough, Hughton, Ince, Campbell, Powell etc

 



Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 25 Oct 22 5.58pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

In a similar vein, can anyone tell me why we don't get more black fans? Black people obviously love football, just look at our players right through the CPFC system. So why do we get so few black fans?

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag London 25 Oct 22 6.00pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Interesting article from PV on the BBC website.

[Link]

What I found interesting is that only 14% of qualified coaches are black now I saw a BBC program about 10 years ago and back then that was roughly the figure quoted and indeed Les Ferdinand says the FA efforts have made no difference.

Well before we can have more black managers we need them to qualify as coaches you would not interview a medical student for a doctors position you would tell him come back when you are qualified.

So why don't black players and black people in general take the coaching badges?

Where I part company from PV and Sir Les is they say black players need more encouragement

"There is a lack of opportunity there. There is a lack of connection from black players to connect ourselves a little bit more with people who are making the decisions.

Fine, there is also a thing called getting off your backside and networking with the decision makers, something PV clearly did but others haven't. For every vacancy there are hundreds who are qualified and would love the job so why should a recruiter have to encourage someone. You have to want the job.

Thoughts


Edited by Badger11 (25 Oct 2022 3.14pm)

Good post. Maybe PV can answer. He's the one who has aired this topic.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 25 Oct 22 6.06pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

In a similar vein, can anyone tell me why we don't get more black fans? Black people obviously love football, just look at our players right through the CPFC system. So why do we get so few black fans?

Judging by the number of black fans in pubs watching Arsenal / Man United etc. (I am thinking of Lewisham) it's not lack of interest more likely it's lack of money.

I would suspect that senior players at the end of their career who are interested in coaching start networking with their club's coaches seeking career advice and opportunities. In many cases they join a smaller club as a player on the basis they will be allowed to coach at some level.

It does seem that black players don't want to do this? I remember one PL owner complaining that he was approached by a world famous black player about being their manager. He offered him a junior coaching position as he had zero experience at any level and the guy was offended he thought he would walk straight into the job.

I think that Pat has proven that if you put the effort in and do the badges you will get a chance at some level, after that it's up to you.

Edited by Badger11 (25 Oct 2022 6.10pm)

 


One more point

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View martin2412's Profile martin2412 Flag The Big Wide World 25 Oct 22 7.27pm Send a Private Message to martin2412 Add martin2412 as a friend

Is it cos I is black ?

It's all cobblers. Clubs would bend over backwards to accomodate black managers/coaches just to be seen to be PC, whether they wanted to or not. In fact I would go as far as saying they would probably employ a black man over a similarly qualified white man for the same reason.

The same as what's been going on at the BBC for years.

The problem is that so far, hardly any have been good enough, qualified enough, and I don't believe committed enough.

Lack of opportunity - nah, I don't buy it.

People of colour will be saying that there's no chance of them ever being prime minister, mayor of London or CEO of John Lewis next.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 25 Oct 22 9.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Apparently, it's fine for black players to be massively over represented as football players...way way over their percentage in the population, but it's not fine for them to be under represented off the pitch.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 25 Oct 22 9.41pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Apparently, it's fine for black players to be massively over represented as football players...way way over their percentage in the population, but it's not fine for them to be under represented off the pitch.

Black Girlfriend's Lives Matter

a topic that has many women in the black community furious, seemingly. Beautiful women, seemingly shunned by their own men ? not sure what the breakdown among black managers & black players is ?

Mo Salah stayed with his childhood sweetheart.....upon achieving success, many footballers don't.

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I predict that we WILL see many more black managers over the next twenty years. Asian, Chinese, Russian ? not so much.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (25 Oct 2022 11.07pm)

 


7 points from Manchester last season

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 25 Oct 22 10.47pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

This article is fairly standard stuff as far as the BBC sports desk is concerned nowadays; disproportionate attention to the same old subject matter, covered to a fairly low intellectual standard and exclusively through the prism of identity politics.

As others have said, if you're determined to categorise people only by their race (a preoccupation that used to be the exclusive domain of racists, but which now underpins the 'woke' philosophy) then you could just as easily point out the disproportionate number of black players, and even managers, in relation to the population, or take the same stats as evidence of a failure to launch within the 'black community' (whatever the hell that phrase even means), but of course that's not how the BBC present it.

Notwithstanding, I do take the point that as most managers are former players, the ratio of black players to managers is noticeable. What I can't abide, however, is the practice of starting with a conclusion (it's all down to racism) rather than investigating the matter objectively. We get nowhere like that, in football or wider society.

Regarding football management vacancies, my instinct is that football is too competitive and valuable an industry to deliberately restrict its own access to talent by discounting people based on race. Clubs hire and fire people from all over the world at a rate of knots in pursuit of even the slightest advantage in management, coaching, technical and support staff. Club owners come from all over the world, from lots of cultures and industries, and the idea they would all, despite their different backgrounds and fierce competition with each other nevertheless conspire to restrict opportunities for black candidates, even when those candidates might add value and give them an advantage worth tens of millions, just doesn't stack up.

Ultimately however, as with any aspect of life, we can only understand whether there is a problem if the matter is properly and scientifically investigated. How many black applicants were there for vacancies in management? What were thier scores at interview compared to other candidates? Is there a correlation showing high scores at interview but failure to get job offers? If you don't have this information then you can only guess, or worse, presume. Which leads back to the BBC.

The tragedy here is that the BBC doesn't need to be an ideological echo chamber. It doesn't have to pander to a particular political mindset, because it doesn't have to sell its product, and is still read by a range of people, if only because we've all paid for it already anyway. It could be head and shoulders above the rest of the mainstream media just because of that freedom, be the place we all go to and trust to set out not only the facts, but the contrasting ways one could assess those facts. It could raise the general standards of public discussion.

Instead we get this same old fixed-position bollocks, and more sadly still, people like Vieira, who are willing and able to articulate their thoughts, are denied access to the reasonable counter arguments that might develop thought and understanding, as are we in turn. The conversation just never happens, and we all miss out.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 25 Oct 22 10.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

This article is fairly standard stuff as far as the BBC sports desk is concerned nowadays; disproportionate attention to the same old subject matter, covered to a fairly low intellectual standard and exclusively through the prism of identity politics.

As others have said, if you're determined to categorise people only by their race (a preoccupation that used to be the exclusive domain of racists, but which now underpins the 'woke' philosophy) then you could just as easily point out the disproportionate number of black players, and even managers, in relation to the population, or take the same stats as evidence of a failure to launch within the 'black community' (whatever the hell that phrase even means), but of course that's not how the BBC present it.

Notwithstanding, I do take the point that as most managers are former players, the ratio of black players to managers is noticeable. What I can't abide, however, is the practice of starting with a conclusion (it's all down to racism) rather than investigating the matter objectively. We get nowhere like that, in football or wider society.

Regarding football management vacancies, my instinct is that football is too competitive and valuable an industry to deliberately restrict its own access to talent by discounting people based on race. Clubs hire and fire people from all over the world at a rate of knots in pursuit of even the slightest advantage in management, coaching, technical and support staff. Club owners come from all over the world, from lots of cultures and industries, and the idea they would all, despite their different backgrounds and fierce competition with each other nevertheless conspire to restrict opportunities for black candidates, even when those candidates might add value and give them an advantage worth tens of millions, just doesn't stack up.

Ultimately however, as with any aspect of life, we can only understand whether there is a problem if the matter is properly and scientifically investigated. How many black applicants were there for vacancies in management? What were thier scores at interview compared to other candidates? Is there a correlation showing high scores at interview but failure to get job offers? If you don't have this information then you can only guess, or worse, presume. Which leads back to the BBC.

The tragedy here is that the BBC doesn't need to be an ideological echo chamber. It doesn't have to pander to a particular political mindset, because it doesn't have to sell its product, and is still read by a range of people, if only because we've all paid for it already anyway. It could be head and shoulders above the rest of the mainstream media just because of that freedom, be the place we all go to and trust to set out not only the facts, but the contrasting ways one could assess those facts. It could raise the general standards of public discussion.

Instead we get this same old fixed-position bollocks, and more sadly still, people like Vieira, who are willing and able to articulate their thoughts, are denied access to the reasonable counter arguments that might develop thought and understanding, as are we in turn. The conversation just never happens, and we all miss out.

An excellent examination of the issues.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 25 Oct 22 11.00pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Black Girlfriend's Lives Matter

a topic that has many women in the black community furious, seemingly. Beautiful women, seemingly shunned by their own men ? not sure what the breakdown among black managers & black players is ?

Mo Salah stayed with his childhood sweetheart.....upon achieving success, many footballers don't.

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Edited by PalazioVecchio (25 Oct 2022 10.50pm)

A lot, if not most women will go for status if they can get it. High status males will mostly go for beauty.....at the high end ethnicity becomes tradable depending upon the individuals and the crowd they mix in.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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