I'd be very surprised if we went down this year. The 'games-played' figure keeps ticking away without the league position changing much. That's partly down to us, and partly down to others. We are playing poorly but picking up points along the way. One or two of the teams beneath us are getting their act together, but one or two are a mess, and not capable of the points-per-game ratio required to overtake us.

In the end, at some point or another, we will of course go down. We are not gravity-proof, and I don't understand the mindset that we should be 'kicking on' having 'established ourselves' in this league. We have a much bigger budget than most championship clubs but have never been, and never will be, big fish in the premier league pond.

Our income from the stadium is obviously fixed at a relatively low level in comparison to most of the clubs we compete with. Even the new stand will only bring us closer to our immediate financial rivals, rather than overtaking anyone.

In terms of prize money, the higher up the table we finish the more money we get, but that just means that every year at least half (usually two-thirds) of the clubs we compete with get more than us to spend next time-around. Basic maths tells you that it gets harder every year.

The financial figures are published openly. The FFP rules are complex but the gist is clear. I sometimes wonder if anyone even reads that stuff when I see so many comments moaning about 'investment' and the clubs being tight-fisted etc.

We are absolutely at the glass ceiling as a club. The academy and new stand are all about trying to find ways to stay where we are, but nobody can swim upstream forever.

When we do one day bite the bullet and go down, we should be a far, far healthier club than we were before, and far more likely to exist for future generations. Nobody running the club is incompetent, greedy, or lazy. Anyone with any knowledge of the club's history and the financial context knows that this is, unarguably, Palace at its very best. That is never going to be enough to consistently occupy the next level (European football). There are just too many bigger fish.

Relegation is an inevitable part of the life of every football club bar a very select few. A properly run club is one that can accommodate that reality, and it seems to me that ours can.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (14 Feb 2023 12.37pm)

A three word response to a very sensible opening post: Brighton., Fulham, Brentford.

nuff said.

We need to move to being eternally 8th rather than 12th, with the odd year when top clubs have a blip and we have a good season where we gate crash Europe - that must be our aim - realistic but with a faint but real hope of getting into Europe - and by all means play the reserves in Europe if our squad is too thin. The new stand with the academy should bring us up to the Wolves, Leicester, Southampton, and dare I say it, Brighton level. Nobody has higher aspirations than that, even though Pulis pointed to the chance to grow the club - we can get 30k+ crowds regularly in the prem with the right stadium.

Not that long ago, Burnley finished 7th in the PL.
In subsequent seasons they finished 15th, 10th,17th and the season after they were relegated.

Excellent post TBTP. A sobering dose of realism about who we are and what we can realistically expect to achieve.

Yes a number of clubs have had standout one-off seasons in the PL and have usually suffered for it. One off success usually results in
- second season struggles as the club strains to play in Europe as well as domestically
- increased wages for existing players as well as for new players deemed necessary to provide for the extra burden of having a European campaign
- having to pay extra for new players so as to try and keep the success going

And no - the extra revenues gained by the higher finish and the European adventure won't cover those extra costs.

Think:
- Bolton
- Middlesbrough
- Stoke
- Portsmouth
- Birmingham
- Wigan
- Burnley

If ever we were to qualify for Europe whether through league position or a cup win, I just hope we will simply focus on maintaining our PL status and enjoying the European ride without throwing unnecessary funds at trying to move up to the next level BEFORE WE HAVE THE FOUNDATION on which to do so.

IMO, it will take a long time for a club like ours to move up even to a level where can consistently compete for a minor European competition. (It certainly won't happen in my lifetime as I'm a year older than Willo).

Edited by doombear (14 Feb 2023 1.51pm)

Ultimately it is all about ambition BTP.
Like most Palace fans I am lifelong and like you I believe we are at our best stage ever.

Where I differ is I believe with the correct planning, managing, investment and infrastructure we could join the heady heights of top ten English clubs and hold our position there.

I believe to achieve the uplift to do this, we would need firstly an ambitious investment vehicle with very deep pockets and desire to grow the club. Geographically we are very well located to build on our current position as south London’s top club. We have a huge catchment area which would soon deliver home gates of 40,000+ given the right location and success.
To do this we would definitely need a more prominent ‘central’ historic location than Selhurst. We would also need a brand new all singing and dancing 40,000 seater stadium. Our current home ground is one of only three grounds in the premier that is old school. We cannot expect to attract top global investors without a bigger plan.

If we could secure a heavy weight investor, we could possibly win an argument at Crystal Palace NSC.
Although the size of gate does not play a huge financial significance, to compete at top level you need to show 40,000 + to attract the credibility.
This route would ensure a long term plan to go big time.

The alternative is much as you have described. Stay as we are, accept the probability of at some stage going down, maybe back up but basically maintain our position as a good mid level club. If this is where we are heading then I would recommend we do not overstretch ourselves with the new stand. c. £150m cost as a loan would be a very big unnecessary burden for a club our size to carry. Down scale the size and the cost to something more manageable.
Who knows where football investment is heading. I see even Elon Musk is making noises. Whatever route we take it is important we protect the on going stability of the club.