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February 5 2023 1.48pm

Ambition

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View tonymair's Profile tonymair Flag 12 Jan 23 9.58pm Send a Private Message to tonymair Add tonymair as a friend

For all that has been achieved since 2010…
Survival in the most demanding league in professional football globally, impresses.
An Academy and infrastructure of note, too, which is recognised.
And even if the stadium improvement occurs, well, when?
Why am I still waiting for more?
Why do I sense inertia is set, and we are moribund?
Why do I not feel the ambition exists, which, I have for our team?
Why do I not feel we play with the excitement and freedom I see from the Bees and the Seagulls, who we now trail.
What’s missing?
What am I missing?


 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 Jan 23 10.06pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by tonymair

For all that has been achieved since 2010…
Survival in the most demanding league in professional football globally, impresses.
An Academy and infrastructure of note, too, which is recognised.
And even if the stadium improvement occurs, well, when?
Why am I still waiting for more?
Why do I sense inertia is set, and we are moribund?
Why do I not feel the ambition exists, which, I have for our team?
Why do I not feel we play with the excitement and freedom I see from the Bees and the Seagulls, who we now trail.
What’s missing?
What am I missing?

Some interesting questions, my thoughts.

Academy
So far this is just bricks and mortars we have yet to bring through a steady stream of young players. Okay it takes time and hopefully in the next 2/3 years we will start to see them but when we are told we should be proud of the Academy I will be when that happens not before.

Major Trophy
We still haven't won a cup, before I die I would like this to happen. In fact in the top 2 divisions we are one of the biggest clubs not to have won a major trophy ever.

Ownership
Apart from SP I have serious doubts over the commitment of our American owners 2 want out and the other sees us as part of some
global organisation which may or may not be good for us.

All of the above is doable so I am not that downhearted but there is a whiff old same old palace.

Edited by Badger11 (12 Jan 2023 10.09pm)

 


One more point

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View samprior's Profile samprior Flag Hamburg 12 Jan 23 10.33pm Send a Private Message to samprior Add samprior as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Some interesting questions, my thoughts.

Academy
So far this is just bricks and mortars we have yet to bring through a steady stream of young players. Okay it takes time and hopefully in the next 2/3 years we will start to see them but when we are told we should be proud of the Academy I will be when that happens not before.

Major Trophy
We still haven't won a cup, before I die I would like this to happen. In fact in the top 2 divisions we are one of the biggest clubs not to have won a major trophy ever.

Ownership
Apart from SP I have serious doubts over the commitment of our American owners 2 want out and the other sees us as part of some
global organisation which may or may not be good for us.

All of the above is doable so I am not that downhearted but there is a whiff old same old palace.

Edited by Badger11 (12 Jan 2023 10.09pm)

Are there any prem teams who this actually applies to? Only Chelsea spring to mind.

For me 1 new academy player regularly competing for a starting position every 2 years would be a sign of progress. Mitchell is currently the only recent graduate, I wonder how long it'll be before the next genuine contribution. Hopefully not too long, I can't see many stepping up this season but sometimes it comes out of nowhere e.g AwB

Edited by samprior (12 Jan 2023 10.34pm)

Edited by samprior (12 Jan 2023 10.35pm)

Edited by samprior (12 Jan 2023 10.41pm)

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 12 Jan 23 11.00pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by tonymair

For all that has been achieved since 2010…
Survival in the most demanding league in professional football globally, impresses.
An Academy and infrastructure of note, too, which is recognised.
And even if the stadium improvement occurs, well, when?
Why am I still waiting for more?
Why do I sense inertia is set, and we are moribund?
Why do I not feel the ambition exists, which, I have for our team?
Why do I not feel we play with the excitement and freedom I see from the Bees and the Seagulls, who we now trail.
What’s missing?
What am I missing?


Touched upon it in another thread however I would say that, despite little to no knowledge. this would be my guess:

Firstly, I don't think you're alone or unjust in feeling this way. Secondly, I would suggest that football is dictated by money these days, the 'top' clubs are always going to be the richest clubs. Newcastle look like the only team to be breaking into that small circle now and not shockingly as they've been bought with the Saudi blood money (controversial statement... or not).

I think beyond major investment, we're probably punching near as best we can at our weight now with top half finishes perhaps slightly above or an improvement. Without the extra money it will be hard to buy top players, acquire a top, top manager and improve the club as a whole (stadium for one thing - always something in the pipeline however little movement). We've seen some rocky times just trying to stay in the Prem and I would again suggest this has halted or hampered our ability to fund continuous improvement.

We had one big spending spree recently and that was out of absolute necessity given the state of the squad. Was more a revamp than an improvement. The thing about that for me was I thought it hailed a new dawn however it would seem to be a one off out of the necessity. If we were to all get our wish, and splash another triple-figure million squid on some full backs, midfielders, a winger and striker, I would question as to just how we would financially justify that and then actually sustain it without immediate success. Could very well be a short lived shot for glory but inevitable catastrophe of a 'boom and bust'.

The proposed model now of investing in young players and an academy I think again is a medium to long term plan for us. As for a cup we certainly have a shout but a lot of luck is needed there.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 13 Jan 23 6.40am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by samprior

For me 1 new academy player regularly competing for a starting position every 2 years would be a sign of progress. Mitchell is currently the only recent graduate, I wonder how long it'll be before the next genuine contribution.

Although Mitchell was an academy player he was really a product of Brentford's academy until they closed it and we snapped him up

 

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View samprior's Profile samprior Flag Hamburg 13 Jan 23 6.49am Send a Private Message to samprior Add samprior as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Although Mitchell was an academy player he was really a product of Brentford's academy until they closed it and we snapped him up

I did think that but he did at least develop for a year or two with us before making the first team so I thought I'd include him.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Jan 23 8.21am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Personally I regard 'the Academy' as tick-box exercise bulls***. I hope I'm proved wrong and it goes on to produce "the team of the thirties" to celebrate the 50th anniversary of a previous accolade, but I very much doubt that it will.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 13 Jan 23 8.57am Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

I think we have reached the Ceiling as a club, unless some billionaire comes along, if we had a 40.000 seat stadium, we wouldn't fill it every week, sustainability is what it is all about, mid table and a cup one day (hopefully) should be our ambitions, trying to play like Man City without the players is ridiculous and will end up with relegation, as for the academy it questionable if it is worth the money is debatable, if you provide one premier league standard a year then yes, if not go down the Brentford route and not have one.

 



Does anyone know the way? Did we hear someone say?
(We just haven't got a clue what to do!)
Does anyone know the way? There's got to be a way, to Blockbuster


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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 13 Jan 23 9.05am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

I think we have reached the Ceiling as a club, unless some billionaire comes along, if we had a 40.000 seat stadium, we wouldn't fill it every week, sustainability is what it is all about, mid table and a cup one day (hopefully) should be our ambitions, trying to play like Man City without the players is ridiculous and will end up with relegation, as for the academy it questionable if it is worth the money is debatable, if you provide one premier league standard a year then yes, if not go down the Brentford route and not have one.

I totally agree.

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Willo's Profile Willo Online Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 13 Jan 23 9.11am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

I think we have reached the Ceiling as a club, unless some billionaire comes along, if we had a 40.000 seat stadium, we wouldn't fill it every week, sustainability is what it is all about, mid table and a cup one day (hopefully) should be our ambitions, trying to play like Man City without the players is ridiculous and will end up with relegation, as for the academy it questionable if it is worth the money is debatable, if you provide one premier league standard a year then yes, if not go down the Brentford route and not have one.

[Link]

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 13 Jan 23 9.20am Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend


Interesting - especially the following paragraph from the Brentford site:

"There has been a recent change in Premier League rules which means that, by the start of the 2024/25 season, all Premier League clubs must have an Academy at Category Three level or higher. The opening of a Category Four Academy is a step towards eventually complying with the new regulations. It is also necessary to have an Academy in order to gain a licence to compete in UEFA competitions".

Thanks for that Willo. That should put to bed arguments about whether or not to have an Academy.

Edited by doombear (13 Jan 2023 9.21am)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 13 Jan 23 9.25am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by YT

Personally I regard 'the Academy' as tick-box exercise bulls***. I hope I'm proved wrong and it goes on to produce "the team of the thirties" to celebrate the 50th anniversary of a previous accolade, but I very much doubt that it will.

That is my concern also, Southampton I guess is one club that had a batch of players come through but that seems to have dried up for now.

I think we are being oversold the benefits of an Academy, of course we need one but I suspect we will only produce the odd player. I guess the best we can hope for is like the bigger clubs we produce a steady stream of lower league players who we hopefully get a transfer fee for.

 


One more point

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