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September 21 2023 7.18pm

Views on PV

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 21 Feb 23 9.56am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Uphill

Two things most worry me about him.

1. Game management
2. Fitness of the players

Against Brentford , with our lack of goals, a one goal lead has to be protected, more competent managers would have made sure that keeping the ball was essential.

Apparently stats prove that Palace cover less ground in a match then any other team so how can you expect success if this basic requirement is not addressed? Elementary or what...

And I see again on this and other threads that we can look forward to an 'easier' run in April with more 'winnable' games against lower teams. I believe that is a fallacy as those in the relegation battle will be more dangerous when fighting to stay up so don't rely on it.

Agreed. I'm sure PV specifically told them to risk losing possession rather than keeping the ball or ensuring it was played deep into a channel and forcing the opposition further downfield.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Lanzo-Ad's Profile Lanzo-Ad Flag Lanzarote 21 Feb 23 10.16am Send a Private Message to Lanzo-Ad Add Lanzo-Ad as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

My understanding ;

* Manager / PV - has a requirement for a player in eg defensive midfield
* Parish approves budget
* Freedman sources potentials
* Player/s that fits profile ( age, fee, wages ) identified and recommended
* Parish, Freedman and PV agree to proceed

The bit that I am missing is how empowered the manager is at end part of the process. I say that after the Hodgson era in which he didn't use some of the signings that were made.

I think that is correct, and if PV gets a player he dosent want i am sure he would make his opinion known, i will ask Juan Jacobo Gonzalez.

 


Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law.
The key of joy is disobedience.
Ordinary morality is only for ordinary people
If one were to take the bible seriously one would go mad. But to take the bible seriously, one must be already mad. Aleister Crowley quotes

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View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 21 Feb 23 10.43am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

My understanding ;

* Manager / PV - has a requirement for a player in eg defensive midfield
* Parish approves budget
* Freedman sources potentials
* Player/s that fits profile ( age, fee, wages ) identified and recommended
* Parish, Freedman and PV agree to proceed

The bit that I am missing is how empowered the manager is at end part of the process. I say that after the Hodgson era in which he didn't use some of the signings that were made.

I suspect that feels about right.

As well as helping facilitate what the manager wants, the club also have to look at things like longevity and profile, that the manager may be less interested with. e.g. if Pat said he wanted Danny Ings, I'd assume Parish and Dougie would say no, we're not buying players with no sell on potential etc.

 

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View TheBigToePunt's Profile TheBigToePunt Flag 21 Feb 23 11.32am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by MrRobbo

I suspect that feels about right.

As well as helping facilitate what the manager wants, the club also have to look at things like longevity and profile, that the manager may be less interested with. e.g. if Pat said he wanted Danny Ings, I'd assume Parish and Dougie would say no, we're not buying players with no sell on potential etc.

I'm sure the manager makes his suggestions (whether that is a particular player, a position, or a player type) but ultimately the main point of a DOF model is that the club makes signings, sales and attends to contracts, not the manager.

The DOF model has risen in prominence as the lifespan of a manager (or head coach) has reduced, and as handling transfers and contracts has become more complex and time-consuming. Martin O'Neill was interviewed the other day and mentioned that almost no 'manager' actually runs the club anymore, certainly not in respect of signings and contacts.

Palace are no different to most, in that we have changed managers quite often under the current ownership (albeit for a variety of reasons), and simply cannot make significant changes to the playing staff every time we appoint a new manager (as used to be the case). Otherwise, if (when) the manager leaves after the usual two or three years, the club would have to start all over again building a new side to suit the new mans preferences.

Also, as you say, a manager will press for ready-made players (as Allardyce did), which will help him achieve his short term goals but leave the club with almost no saleable assets and limited room to work the market (as was the case at Palace). A DOF will be signing players with the clubs short, medium and long term in mind.

All of which leads back to Vieira, and how to assess his work. I think you've got to judge him on the strength of the squad he has. It's a decent group of players, but no more than decent. The points tally and league position is, as things stand, probably OK for what he's got overall, although the team has looked shabby in places this year, especially in comparison to the first half of last year, and especially at home, which is hard to accept.

Ultimately, I think that both the points tally and the standard of play would improve noticeably with a good forward. If one is signed and we still look stodgy then fair enough, that would rest on the manager's shoulders. Until that time I find it hard to be very critical.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (21 Feb 2023 11.33am)

 

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View Palace Old Geezer's Profile Palace Old Geezer Flag Midhurst 21 Feb 23 11.54am Send a Private Message to Palace Old Geezer Add Palace Old Geezer as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I'm sure the manager makes his suggestions (whether that is a particular player, a position, or a player type) but ultimately the main point of a DOF model is that the club makes signings, sales and attends to contracts, not the manager...........

..........Ultimately, I think that both the points tally and the standard of play would improve noticeably with a good forward. If one is signed and we still look stodgy then fair enough, that would rest on the manager's shoulders. Until that time I find it hard to be very critical.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (21 Feb 2023 11.33am)

Good, insightful post BTP. Folk are too quick to put blame on the manager, but all things considered, I reckon he's doing an OK job, bearing in mind it's CPFC we're writing about here.

Potter, Moyes and one or two others are mentioned in the Press as being on the verge of sackings so at least the media haven't rounded on PV yet.

 


Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Feb 23 12.00pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I'm sure the manager makes his suggestions (whether that is a particular player, a position, or a player type) but ultimately the main point of a DOF model is that the club makes signings, sales and attends to contracts, not the manager.

The DOF model has risen in prominence as the lifespan of a manager (or head coach) has reduced, and as handling transfers and contracts has become more complex and time-consuming. Martin O'Neill was interviewed the other day and mentioned that almost no 'manager' actually runs the club anymore, certainly not in respect of signings and contacts.

Palace are no different to most, in that we have changed managers quite often under the current ownership (albeit for a variety of reasons), and simply cannot make significant changes to the playing staff every time we appoint a new manager (as used to be the case). Otherwise, if (when) the manager leaves after the usual two or three years, the club would have to start all over again building a new side to suit the new mans preferences.

Also, as you say, a manager will press for ready-made players (as Allardyce did), which will help him achieve his short term goals but leave the club with almost no saleable assets and limited room to work the market (as was the case at Palace). A DOF will be signing players with the clubs short, medium and long term in mind.

All of which leads back to Vieira, and how to assess his work. I think you've got to judge him on the strength of the squad he has. It's a decent group of players, but no more than decent. The points tally and league position is, as things stand, probably OK for what he's got overall, although the team has looked shabby in places this year, especially in comparison to the first half of last year, and especially at home, which is hard to accept.

Ultimately, I think that both the points tally and the standard of play would improve noticeably with a good forward. If one is signed and we still look stodgy then fair enough, that would rest on the manager's shoulders. Until that time I find it hard to be very critical.

Edited by TheBigToePunt (21 Feb 2023 11.33am)

You certainly do have the capacity to post some very good reading on here TBTP and, for me anyway, this qualifies as another excellent post.

I would add that whilst I do agree to apropos a Striker I don't think it absolves PV completely of any of the fair and usual 'football manager criticisms' he will/is receiving.

As things stand, I think the true test of Vieira will be pulling us out of this winless run. If we do limp through as we have been doing, and all starts to pick up as the fixtures soften (this is actually my forecast) I think the 'no real/poor striker' argument will come more to the fore.

However, if we do start to drop towards the relegation places (only 6 points), continue to struggle scoring and putting in soft/abject/weak performances, with bizarre substitutions etc. I think the heat may turn up on him.

On a completely useless tangent, I do like seeing the DOF acronym used as despite knowing exactly what it means my brain still convinces me this is some sort of short-hand code for 'Dougie Freedman' every time

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 21 Feb 23 12.02pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

The recent signings of French speakers of West African origin in the team suggests some input from Vieira. I find it hard to believe that Freedman was aware of, or could facilitate, the transfers of Doucoure and Ahamada without Vieira's knowledge and involvement.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (21 Feb 2023 8.12am)

We had strong connections in France long before Viera was on the scene.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 21 Feb 23 12.12pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

You certainly do have the capacity to post some very good reading on here TBTP and, for me anyway, this qualifies as another excellent post.

I would add that whilst I do agree to apropos a Striker I don't think it absolves PV completely of any of the fair and usual 'football manager criticisms' he will/is receiving.

As things stand, I think the true test of Vieira will be pulling us out of this winless run. If we do limp through as we have been doing, and all starts to pick up as the fixtures soften (this is actually my forecast) I think the 'no real/poor striker' argument will come more to the fore.

However, if we do start to drop towards the relegation places (only 6 points), continue to struggle scoring and putting in soft/abject/weak performances, with bizarre substitutions etc. I think the heat may turn up on him.

On a completely useless tangent, I do like seeing the DOF acronym used as despite knowing exactly what it means my brain still convinces me this is some sort of short-hand code for 'Dougie Freedman' every time

Scoring is a serious issue; but the only performance that I have seen that comes under the description highlighted was home to Spurs. Thus, I question the use of the word "continue".

You are aware that we are playing teams who are very good, who want to beat us, and who have all (i.e. all 19) spent more than us on players - usually quite a lot more. Again, not a criticism that can be levelled at the coaches.

I see 30 points by the end of March as putting us out of trouble as the following games (save Spurs) are ones where we will get more than enough to stay up.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Feb 23 12.18pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Scoring is a serious issue; but the only performance that I have seen that comes under the description highlighted was home to Spurs. Thus, I question the use of the word "continue".

You are aware that we are playing teams who are very good, who want to beat us, and who have all (i.e. all 19) spent more than us on players - usually quite a lot more. Again, not a criticism that can be levelled at the coaches.

I see 30 points by the end of March as putting us out of trouble as the following games (save Spurs) are ones where we will get more than enough to stay up.

That's fair enough as poor articulation/communication from me.

I think I'd add BHA in there too despite getting the draw plus a couple more where I somewhat 'lacked the belief' that we might actually win.

I used 'soft/abject/weak' as a broad spectrum of descriptors more aligned to the lack of goals and wins as opposed to clinical definitions of performances, if that in itself makes any sense?

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View HesHereHesThere's Profile HesHereHesThere Flag Beckenham 21 Feb 23 12.28pm Send a Private Message to HesHereHesThere Add HesHereHesThere as a friend

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

Anyway, after the recent discovery of poor Nicola Bulleys Body, Very sad news and condolences to here family, it appears a spiritual Medium, Jason Rothwell, Helped the Police find her,
I payed a visit yesterday to Juan Jacobo Gonzalez, a well known Spiritualist on my beloved island, to see if he could predict PVs and Palaces future, So, he predicted the PV would be relieved of his duties on April 3rd, after our home defeat by Leicester, putting us 4th from bottom, 2 points above the relegation zone, spooky stuff, make of it what you will

Did you ask for this week lottery numbers whilst you were there?

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 21 Feb 23 12.31pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Scoring is a serious issue; but the only performance that I have seen that comes under the description highlighted was home to Spurs. Thus, I question the use of the word "continue".

You are aware that we are playing teams who are very good, who want to beat us, and who have all (i.e. all 19) spent more than us on players - usually quite a lot more. Again, not a criticism that can be levelled at the coaches.

I see 30 points by the end of March as putting us out of trouble as the following games (save Spurs) are ones where we will get more than enough to stay up.

How about Everton, Forest, Fulham and Southampton in the cup. Along with Spurs that is 5 out of 20 games, so 25% where we have been very poor and many of the points we have picked up have been fortunate to say the least.

Im really not sure about this season. In theory we should be ok given our final 6 or so games but Id rather be playing the teams in flip flops at that time of the season than those desperate for points. The fixture list hasnt been friendly this year and I think there is a real danger of us slipping into the relegation zone before April and then we better hope there are characters in the team who can galvanise others and play well under real pressure.

 

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View Vaibow's Profile Vaibow Flag vancouver/croydon 22 Feb 23 4.41am Send a Private Message to Vaibow Add Vaibow as a friend

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

Sure "I wanted Nuno Pat but he was a bit of a snake so you can have the job. There's fvck all money after the first year and you'll have to revert to Royball"

You think no one has worked our situation out?? wake up.

 


This was once a quality forum....

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