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June 1 2023 10.20am

Starmer thinks no one will remember....

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 14 Apr 23 4.18pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yeah, because the pandemic and the enormous cost was all imaginary.

And before you say that government policy was a mistake, let me remind you that Starmer wanted even more lockdowns and more furlough.

If you don't want yellows, choose your language carefully. I have to censor myself regularly with certain posters.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Feb 2023 11.11am)

Imaginary? No. Unwarranted? Well, ask the National Audit Office how well run the finances were during COVID.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 14 Apr 23 4.38pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Yet somehow the Party appears unified, the policies are palatable (and regularly get pilfered by the Tories) and there are few of the oopsy daisy moments that the Tories have on a weekly basis. But he's bad at running things. I see.

The party is only unified because he's excluded anyone who dares to offer a different view.

Policies are palatable to who? Tories? The highlights I've seen so far as getting tougher on laughing gas and fly tippers... amazing.

He doesn't support the strikes, is still punting austerity politics, tough on law and order. The ads they've put out about Sunak this week are abhorrent from a Labour party - he is not offering an alternative, just a slightly more competent version of the same old s***.

He's u-turned on nearly every pledge he won the leadership on - his only principles are whatever the latest focus group tells him to believe.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 14 Apr 23 4.41pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The party is only unified because he's excluded anyone who dares to offer a different view.

Policies are palatable to who? Tories? The highlights I've seen so far as getting tougher on laughing gas and fly tippers... amazing.

He doesn't support the strikes, is still punting austerity politics, tough on law and order. The ads they've put out about Sunak this week are abhorrent from a Labour party - he is not offering an alternative, just a slightly more competent version of the same old s***.

He's u-turned on nearly every pledge he won the leadership on - his only principles are whatever the latest focus group tells him to believe.

I take it you aren't keen then? I would suggest in that case you would rather Labour be constantly and permanently only ever His Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 14 Apr 23 4.46pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The party is only unified because he's excluded anyone who dares to offer a different view.

Policies are palatable to who? Tories? The highlights I've seen so far as getting tougher on laughing gas and fly tippers... amazing.

He doesn't support the strikes, is still punting austerity politics, tough on law and order. The ads they've put out about Sunak this week are abhorrent from a Labour party - he is not offering an alternative, just a slightly more competent version of the same old s***.

He's u-turned on nearly every pledge he won the leadership on - his only principles are whatever the latest focus group tells him to believe.

You against law and order then?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 14 Apr 23 4.48pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The party is only unified because he's excluded anyone who dares to offer a different view.

Policies are palatable to who? Tories? The highlights I've seen so far as getting tougher on laughing gas and fly tippers... amazing.

He doesn't support the strikes, is still punting austerity politics, tough on law and order. The ads they've put out about Sunak this week are abhorrent from a Labour party - he is not offering an alternative, just a slightly more competent version of the same old s***.

He's u-turned on nearly every pledge he won the leadership on - his only principles are whatever the latest focus group tells him to believe.

Starmer represents how politicians have modelled themselves since Blair, it's not about principles it's about power.

Blair joined a party that very much believed in clause 4 and CND....he joined that party and campaigned for it.....Yet once he came to its leadership it was all about being Tory lite. He was essentially a neo liberal and still is but that wasn't the party he joined.

Sunak is very similar insomuch as he joined a majority anti EU party. Indeed, the safe seat he was gifted was extremely pro Brexit and as a consequence he voted for Brexit. However, as can be seen in his politics he's no real Brexiter, he's very fluid on the issue and will bend which way he thinks is best for him.

Starmer and him are essentially the same kind of non conviction politician. Maybe this is a fundamental flaw with modern day politics that only this kind of person likely succeeds into leadership......For example, it was only via a very unlikely set of circumstances that Corbyn became Labour leader......And old turncoat Starmer now treats him like a leper.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 14 Apr 23 5.00pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I take it you aren't keen then? I would suggest in that case you would rather Labour be constantly and permanently only ever His Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

I really dislike this point to be honest - I still think Starmer's Labour are preferable to the current government but it does not mean they should be exempt from criticism nor that I have blindly support everything they do.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 14 Apr 23 5.06pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Starmer represents how politicians have modelled themselves since Blair, it's not about principles it's about power.

Blair joined a party that very much believed in clause 4 and CND....he joined that party and campaigned for it.....Yet once he came to its leadership it was all about being Tory lite. He was essentially a neo liberal and still is but that wasn't the party he joined.

Sunak is very similar insomuch as he joined a majority anti EU party. Indeed, the safe seat he was gifted was extremely pro Brexit and as a consequence he voted for Brexit. However, as can be seen in his politics he's no real Brexiter, he's very fluid on the issue and will bend which way he thinks is best for him.

Starmer and him are essentially the same kind of non conviction politician. Maybe this is a fundamental flaw with modern day politics that only this kind of person likely succeeds into leadership......For example, it was only via a very unlikely set of circumstances that Corbyn became Labour leader......And old turncoat Starmer now treats him like a leper.

Yeah broadly agree.

I actually think the flaw you refer to is also heavily linked to the way the media operates in this country - the only Labour leaders to win a GE in my lifetime (assuming Starmer doesn't balls it up too much) will be the ones endorsed by Murdoch and who will continue to toe the establishment line.

A threat to that norm, a la Corbyn, is absolutely decimated in media until they have no prospect of winning.


 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 14 Apr 23 5.08pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I really dislike this point to be honest - I still think Starmer's Labour are preferable to the current government but it does not mean they should be exempt from criticism nor that I have blindly support everything they do.

And criticism from someone who supports a party is usually more valid than that from those on the other side looking to score points.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 14 Apr 23 6.06pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I really dislike this point to be honest - I still think Starmer's Labour are preferable to the current government but it does not mean they should be exempt from criticism nor that I have blindly support everything they do.

Dislike it or not, it is the crux of the matter. Either represent a smaller group very accurately or a larger group involving compromises.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 14 Apr 23 6.13pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Starmer represents how politicians have modelled themselves since Blair, it's not about principles it's about power.

Blair joined a party that very much believed in clause 4 and CND....he joined that party and campaigned for it.....Yet once he came to its leadership it was all about being Tory lite. He was essentially a neo liberal and still is but that wasn't the party he joined.

Sunak is very similar insomuch as he joined a majority anti EU party. Indeed, the safe seat he was gifted was extremely pro Brexit and as a consequence he voted for Brexit. However, as can be seen in his politics he's no real Brexiter, he's very fluid on the issue and will bend which way he thinks is best for him.

Starmer and him are essentially the same kind of non conviction politician. Maybe this is a fundamental flaw with modern day politics that only this kind of person likely succeeds into leadership......For example, it was only via a very unlikely set of circumstances that Corbyn became Labour leader......And old turncoat Starmer now treats him like a leper.

Sunak joined the Conservative Party in the 1990s. It was absolutely not anti EU

Nor, as I recall, was the Cameron government or indeed the majority of Conservative MPs prior to the Brexit vote. They knew the massive damage it would cause and didnít believe the public could be so stupid

Where on Earth do you get your ideas?


Edited by Mapletree (14 Apr 2023 6.15pm)

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 14 Apr 23 6.19pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Sunak joined the Conservative Party in the 1990s. It was absolutely not anti EU

Nor, as I recall, was the Cameron government or indeed the majority of Conservative MPs prior to the Brexit vote. They knew the massive damage it would cause and didnít believe the public could be so stupid

Where on Earth do you get your ideas?


Edited by Mapletree (14 Apr 2023 6.15pm)

Are you pretended big to be wissie? He called Brexit voters stupid !

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 14 Apr 23 6.28pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Are you pretended big to be wissie? He called Brexit voters stupid !

Take a look around you. Paralysis since the vote. Travel screwed. Economy screwed. Importing and exporting nigh on impossible. People believed a proven serial liar and the side of a bus. The farmers now see their mistake. Another referendum would certainly come out strongly in favour of never having left.

In the run up to the referendum, of the 650 MPs elected to the 2015-17 UK Parliament a total of 479 MPs publicly declared their intention to vote in favour of remaining in the European Union compared with just 158 MPs who declared their intention to vote in favour of leaving the European Union.

I guess they were all terribly poorly informed.

Edited by Mapletree (14 Apr 2023 6.29pm)

 

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