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June 4 2023 4.02am

Vieira vs Roy V2.0

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 16 May 23 12.19pm Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Because I am a sad sack, I also compared PV's first and second games against the same opposition this season.

Against 9 opponents we played twice under him, we got 8 points in the first round of games, and three in the second.

This is fairly interesting evidence against PV

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 16 May 23 12.23pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

Let me just be clear, are you saying black pundits are showing solidarity with Vieira because he was the only black manager in the PL, or are you saying they have stated he lost his job because he was black? I've not heard anyone say the latter and if they had Parish would be in real trouble. If it's the former then that is understandable given the history of racism in the country and the seeming lack of opportunities for black managers (whether that is real or not is another matter, but the fact is currently there are no black managers in the PL). You can't reverse the roles because white men are not a minority and they hold the power. Maybe in 30 years China will own all of our ar$es and we really will understand what it is like to be judged based on our race.

He lost his job because of results and performances, one assumes.

Crooks and co are complaining about the sacking because he is Black. That seems glaringly obvious to me.
It goes with the demonstrably ridiculous assertion that there should be more Black managers.

No, there isn't any reason why there should be. Vieira would have kept his job if we had performed better.

The fact that we are even having this conversion shows how bonkers the diversity issue has become.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 May 2023 12.25pm)

 

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View Gribbo's Profile Gribbo Flag Bromley 16 May 23 2.04pm Send a Private Message to Gribbo Add Gribbo as a friend

Patrick better at recruitment and attracting quality young players.

Roy, Ray and Paddy better at coaching, setting up and motivating the players.

Neither particularly strong at in-game management.

Oisin - not particularly strong at anything much it seems

 

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View Gribbo's Profile Gribbo Flag Bromley 16 May 23 2.41pm Send a Private Message to Gribbo Add Gribbo as a friend

Patrick better at recruitment and attracting quality young players.

Roy, Ray and Paddy better at coaching, setting up and motivating the players.

Neither particularly strong at in-game management.

Oisin - not particularly strong at anything much it seems

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 16 May 23 3.19pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

I'd like to put out a slightly different view one where I think the crooks(and other 'top' pundits) Vieira views come from...

They are so pre-occupied with the Big Clubs - that they don't really see, or take time to understand what's going on at our club(or other clubs). What they see is that for a year (and a bit) Vieira was doing a wonderful job - as proclaimed by every pundit, ever - They were each saying it a lot so validating their own views. What they saw is a manager, doing 'well', 12th in the table, getting sacked. For those pundits disposed to a 'not enough black managers in the PL' viewpoint, then this Was the reason, or part of the reason, or at the very least another thing to shout whilst up on their soapbox.

Look a bit deeper as to what was happening, and you see that this was not the case, and Parish made the right call.

It's akin to reporting on highlights, not the whole match, and quite frankly lazy and defamatory.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Flag 16 May 23 3.35pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

I'd like to put out a slightly different view one where I think the crooks(and other 'top' pundits) Vieira views come from...

They are so pre-occupied with the Big Clubs - that they don't really see, or take time to understand what's going on at our club(or other clubs). What they see is that for a year (and a bit) Vieira was doing a wonderful job - as proclaimed by every pundit, ever - They were each saying it a lot so validating their own views. What they saw is a manager, doing 'well', 12th in the table, getting sacked. For those pundits disposed to a 'not enough black managers in the PL' viewpoint, then this Was the reason, or part of the reason, or at the very least another thing to shout whilst up on their soapbox.

Look a bit deeper as to what was happening, and you see that this was not the case, and Parish made the right call.

It's akin to reporting on highlights, not the whole match, and quite frankly lazy and defamatory.

I agree that Crooks and some other pundits clearly don't watch our games judging by some of the things they say. The number of points Roy has racked up are not surprising (the same as PV got from the reverse fixtures this season) what is surprising is the way we have got them. Our performances have largely been the best we've seen in ages. I still think we may have got a similar points haul under Vieira as Leicester, Leeds, Southampton and Bournemouth were awful...but...I doubt we would have done it with such style.

For a club our size performances are really important as we are unlikely to win anything. That's why I hated Roy's last couple of years because it was pragmatic to the point of sucking all joy out of the game. Post Christmas PV did something similar. Will Roy revert back to boring pragmatism next season if he stays on? That's the big question. Continue like this and I'm more than happy but when you hear him referring to Olise and Eze needing to work on the defensive side of their game I get flashbacks to him saying he picked Bentenke to defend corners

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 16 May 23 4.50pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

I agree that Crooks and some other pundits clearly don't watch our games judging by some of the things they say. The number of points Roy has racked up are not surprising (the same as PV got from the reverse fixtures this season) what is surprising is the way we have got them. Our performances have largely been the best we've seen in ages. I still think we may have got a similar points haul under Vieira as Leicester, Leeds, Southampton and Bournemouth were awful...but...I doubt we would have done it with such style.

For a club our size performances are really important as we are unlikely to win anything. That's why I hated Roy's last couple of years because it was pragmatic to the point of sucking all joy out of the game. Post Christmas PV did something similar. Will Roy revert back to boring pragmatism next season if he stays on? That's the big question. Continue like this and I'm more than happy but when you hear him referring to Olise and Eze needing to work on the defensive side of their game I get flashbacks to him saying he picked Bentenke to defend corners

Cant disagree with any of that.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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View Ginger Pubic Wig's Profile Ginger Pubic Wig Flag Wickham de L'Ouest 16 May 23 5.00pm Send a Private Message to Ginger Pubic Wig Add Ginger Pubic Wig as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

Cant disagree with any of that.

If Eze and Olise want to take the step up, they need to work on the defensive side of their games. Top football teams defend from the front.

Eze in particular has a lot of work to do. Mind you, I always thought Loftus Cheek was shocking in this regard when he was at Palace. he would literally stroll or even walk back to positions that clearly needed closing down immediately

 


If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 16 May 23 5.21pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

I agree that Crooks and some other pundits clearly don't watch our games judging by some of the things they say. The number of points Roy has racked up are not surprising (the same as PV got from the reverse fixtures this season) what is surprising is the way we have got them. Our performances have largely been the best we've seen in ages. I still think we may have got a similar points haul under Vieira as Leicester, Leeds, Southampton and Bournemouth were awful...but...I doubt we would have done it with such style.

For a club our size performances are really important as we are unlikely to win anything. That's why I hated Roy's last couple of years because it was pragmatic to the point of sucking all joy out of the game. Post Christmas PV did something similar. Will Roy revert back to boring pragmatism next season if he stays on? That's the big question. Continue like this and I'm more than happy but when you hear him referring to Olise and Eze needing to work on the defensive side of their game I get flashbacks to him saying he picked Bentenke to defend corners

I think this is the point however, PV and Roy are chalk and cheese or certainly both managers who arrived with different mandates.

Roy - A steady old head who in lieu of an ability to invest in the playing staff will pragmatically achieve the maximum with the bare minimum. Previously and this season that objective was solely PL survival without any managerial grumbling, excuses or histrionics about financial situation. Mission accomplished for Roy.

PV - A (relatively) large investment in new players and an expectation of new direction, identity and ambition for the club. First season was promising however second progressed from worse, to awful to perilous and unsalvageable - literal months without winning. Mission failed for PV.

Roy has returned to secure safety and as a result of his fulfilling his mandate not dependant upon anything more than management of the players available to him. His continued staying would, again maybe just for me, represent the financial situation. I cannot see the board spending any sincere amount on new players with Roy there but you never know. My assumption would be that if they do, in the close season or in the future, identify funds for investment in the team the board will once more look to back a new, young, revolutionary.

Hopefully next time it works for more than one season!

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View taylors lovechild's Profile taylors lovechild Flag 16 May 23 6.10pm Send a Private Message to taylors lovechild Add taylors lovechild as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Hopefully next time it works for more than one season!

The average lifespan of a PL manager these days suggests not. Next season De Zerbi will probably be found out and sacked by October. One of the newly promoted managers will be declared a genius then useless 12 months later. Are expectations too high, or are 75% of managers considered useless? I don't know, I think people are too impatient these days...others would argue I'm far too patient! How can a young manager learn if he is sacked at the first sign of trouble?

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 16 May 23 7.37pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

The average lifespan of a PL manager these days suggests not. Next season De Zerbi will probably be found out and sacked by October. One of the newly promoted managers will be declared a genius then useless 12 months later. Are expectations too high, or are 75% of managers considered useless? I don't know, I think people are too impatient these days...others would argue I'm far too patient! How can a young manager learn if he is sacked at the first sign of trouble?

I think in our case itís the fear of relegation of course TL however with others it may be fear of not qualifying for Europe or even not winning a trophy etc.

Football has no patience these days, fortunately or unfortunately. Itís a money business only with fans the only real constant.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View thai-eagle's Profile thai-eagle Flag chiang mai 21 May 23 9.20am Send a Private Message to thai-eagle Add thai-eagle as a friend

I think we may close this post after 2-2 against Fulham. Under Vieira we not only lost 0-3 at home (it could easily have been five or six), but we were outplayed like I hardly ever seen before. Yesterday some weak Mitchell defending cost us the game. And for long spells we were the better team.
Thus, based on the two Fulham games, I dear say that having Roy back is a blessing.

 

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