Vieira vs Roy V2.0
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 grumpymort  US/Thailand/UK 17 Oct 23 3.51pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I guess that is the point. Roy is a pragmatic defence minded coach so if the board will not fund a proper squad better him than PV who perhaps is better suited to a bigger club.
Basic defending at times you really need to question what Palace are doing. He is negative style football. Why is it he is not given the funds that is another question to ask because PV had close to 130m. I wouldn't trust him time and time we see him selecting same old so what is the point signing these players if he wont use them.
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Lanzo-Ad  Lanzarote 17 Oct 23 4.03pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I guess that is the point. Roy is a pragmatic defence minded coach so if the board will not fund a proper squad better him than PV who perhaps is better suited to a bigger club. I was going to say McDonalds, but i dont want to insult them.
“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn |
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 17 Oct 23 4.20pm |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
Basic defending at times you really need to question what Palace are doing. He is negative style football. Why is it he is not given the funds that is another question to ask because PV had close to 130m. I wouldn't trust him time and time we see him selecting same old so what is the point signing these players if he wont use them. We have an injury hit side, so when the likes of Olise, Edouard, Franca, Eze and even Doucoure and Lerma out recently, so pragmatism is the only available option. I'd suggest Roy is not given the funding PV had as he is only a short term solution - there was and never has, understandably, been a longer outlook plan in place for somebody who was close to and now come back out of retirement. I'll also add that when PV received the activity/funding/players he did, this was out of necessity at the time, they were 'needs' and not 'wants'. That squad was threadbare and had several departures too. I was under the impression the arrival of a new manager was married to the investment in team, with a look ahead to a number of years as opposed to the immediate season. As it happened, PV wasn;t the long term, young success of a manager everybody hoped. Strasbourg are going through that experience now. So I don't think funds are indicative of anything with Roy, his age alone dictates his short term status and any alleged 'selecting the same old' or 'negative tactics' is actually a pragmatism to do as much with as little as is available. I therefore echo MrRobbo's sentiments, given the lack of available playing staff arising from lack investment in team and injuries. It would be a very short if not blank list of managers better suited for us at this moment. I'd genuinely be interested to see how Pep, Jurgen, Carlo, Jose, Mikel etc would do with the currently available crop here. I'd place a bet they'd just walk lest they face complete humiliation or inability to play as they have with far bigger guns. We played better under Roy at full strength, scoring plenty too. As we've been reduced to rolling out the part-timers, Roy's ability to achieve the most with the limited resources available is a blessing many other managers may not have provided.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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Mapletree  Croydon 17 Oct 23 10.39pm |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
We have an injury hit side, so when the likes of Olise, Edouard, Franca, Eze and even Doucoure and Lerma out recently, so pragmatism is the only available option. I'd suggest Roy is not given the funding PV had as he is only a short term solution - there was and never has, understandably, been a longer outlook plan in place for somebody who was close to and now come back out of retirement. I'll also add that when PV received the activity/funding/players he did, this was out of necessity at the time, they were 'needs' and not 'wants'. That squad was threadbare and had several departures too. I was under the impression the arrival of a new manager was married to the investment in team, with a look ahead to a number of years as opposed to the immediate season. As it happened, PV wasn;t the long term, young success of a manager everybody hoped. Strasbourg are going through that experience now. So I don't think funds are indicative of anything with Roy, his age alone dictates his short term status and any alleged 'selecting the same old' or 'negative tactics' is actually a pragmatism to do as much with as little as is available. I therefore echo MrRobbo's sentiments, given the lack of available playing staff arising from lack investment in team and injuries. It would be a very short if not blank list of managers better suited for us at this moment. I'd genuinely be interested to see how Pep, Jurgen, Carlo, Jose, Mikel etc would do with the currently available crop here. I'd place a bet they'd just walk lest they face complete humiliation or inability to play as they have with far bigger guns. We played better under Roy at full strength, scoring plenty too. As we've been reduced to rolling out the part-timers, Roy's ability to achieve the most with the limited resources available is a blessing many other managers may not have provided. Relatively speaking how much was wenger given when Arsenal was building its new stand?
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| grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 19 Oct 23 4.05pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Relatively speaking how much was wenger given when Arsenal was building its new stand?
Arsenal had no issue spending 20-30m which was a lot back in those days. Different case to Palace who are a far smaller club the trophy room by itself is evidence enough. The stadium cost them around 400m which is a lot of money a large % had gone to improving transport.
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| Living In Hope Petersfield 19 Oct 23 9.04pm |
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Whilst I was not at all thrilled by Roy's return, I think he showed at the end of last season that his teams can play exciting football if he has the right players. With Eze and Olise supported by some excellent, more defensively-minded players, we looked really good and were entertaining. Like others have said, currently we have no flair players at all and have been found out for our lack of squad depth, so we must be pragmatic. In these circumstances 0-0 at home v Forest was in my view a remarkable achievement. However my biggest reservation about Roy coming back was that we would not be able to attract players, partly because of his slightly unfair reputation for being defensive, but partly because he is clearly a very short-term solution and a new manager will bring jeopardy to the players. Not sure whether this was the key reason for our poor transfer window, or whether it was that we have no money, or whether the board are simply not prepared to spend, but maybe a combination of all these things.
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| aashman12 20 Oct 23 11.36am |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
Basic defending at times you really need to question what Palace are doing. He is negative style football. Why is it he is not given the funds that is another question to ask because PV had close to 130m. I wouldn't trust him time and time we see him selecting same old so what is the point signing these players if he wont use them. Who's he signed that he doesn't use, and other probably because we gave Viera that money to spend that we can't back Roy, again.
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| Glazier#1 20 Oct 23 3.17pm |
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Originally posted by grumpymort
Basic defending at times you really need to question what Palace are doing. He is negative style football. Why is it he is not given the funds that is another question to ask because PV had close to 130m. I wouldn't trust him time and time we see him selecting same old so what is the point signing these players if he wont use them. Oh, come now. At the moment, as others have mentioned, Mr Hodgson is doing what is required with the resources we have, injury-wise. You talk as if 'negative style football is his default. How come you've forgotten what happened at the back-end of last season, when he presided over us playing the most positive style football we've seen at the club in years. I don't wish to be disrespectful but what on earth were you watching? I do get so fed up with the tarring of our manager with the 'boring Roy-ball' toffee.
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 20 Oct 23 3.33pm |
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Vieira & Roy Keane two great rivals, great footballers.....shyte managers.. it often happens
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Oct 23 3.41pm |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
Vieira & Roy Keane two great rivals, great footballers.....shyte managers.. it often happens They've had their moments. In fairness, Vieira seemed great at first, then not so great. Even Keane has had his success but not quite the solution to his career. He was linked with something recently. Did I hear Vieira got a job? Can't remember. I will say, I bear no grudge to Vieira - unlike some previous managers. Mostly good memories but I repress the bad. You kind of have to with Palace no matter who the manager is.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 20 Oct 23 3.57pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
They've had their moments. In fairness, Vieira seemed great at first, then not so great. Even Keane has had his success but not quite the solution to his career. He was linked with something recently. Did I hear Vieira got a job? Can't remember. I will say, I bear no grudge to Vieira - unlike some previous managers. Mostly good memories but I repress the bad. You kind of have to with Palace no matter who the manager is. PV for me was a pretty easy script to write were it written: Was a nice try from everybody but didn't work out. It's a cruel business but necessarily so. Think he's at Strasbourg now, to quote Willo: "Patrick Vieira, born 23 June 1976, is a French professional football manager and former player who is the head coach of Ligue 1 club Strasbourg."
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 20 Oct 23 4.16pm |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
PV for me was a pretty easy script to write were it written: Was a nice try from everybody but didn't work out. It's a cruel business but necessarily so. Think he's at Strasbourg now, to quote Willo: "Patrick Vieira, born 23 June 1976, is a French professional football manager and former player who is the head coach of Ligue 1 club Strasbourg." Good summary. I think the magic of playing for a world class player has now worn off. PV will be judged by the players on what he does which makes his job a lot harder. Roy Keane did well early on as the players believed in him until the penny dropped. I hope PV can deliver but I suspect there is a chair at Sky with his name ready to be penciled in. Parish made the right call. Edited by Badger11 (20 Oct 2023 4.17pm)
One more point |
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