Khan Burnham Sarwar.....and Starmer
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 steeleye20  Croydon 30 Oct 23 10.47pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Starmer has to signal to the US and the powers that be that he will tow the line, even in the face of voter pressure - that's his position here. Let's be honest, we don't matter, the USA does. Have you noticed that Iraq, Afghanistan, this and others produce unity in the HOC with the USA no matter how wrong it is. Wilson kept us out of Vietnam, it's the only time I can think of.
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 30 Oct 23 10.57pm |
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I agree in part with this, of course worse example was Blair being a suppository for Bush. IMHO the main reason for the post WWII relationship with the US was the deterrent effect of US forces in Europe facing the Eastern Bloc. The US will always look after it's own interests first, as should any country. There is no special affinity for the UK now. Hindsight is easy of course, Ho Chi Minh spent most of the war with Japan helping the Allies. He was a Nationalist who was driven towards Communism by the Allied powers agreeing to support France in maintaining it's colonies. Same done with the Dutch, there were significant battles with British troops in Indonesia waiting for the Dutch to turn up. Edited by HKOwen (30 Oct 2023 11.02pm)
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 31 Oct 23 11.32am |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Why? Don't see that he would particularly worry about the US or the powers that be, whoever they are. Perhaps Starmer has found a principle that is a line he will not cross. He is now in a situation where he has to stay firm on this or lose all credibility. As I expect him to be next PM I am glad he is showing that he will not flip flop on everything. Disagree entirely that he has to 'stay firm' - 76% of the population support a ceasefire according to YouGov, yet neither the government nor the opposition are representing this view. This is also a rapidly evolving situation, and so to change your position in light of new events or information should be encouraged. The ship has long since sailed in pretending Starmer has anything like principles.
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cryrst  The garden of England 31 Oct 23 4.02pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Disagree entirely that he has to 'stay firm' - 76% of the population support a ceasefire according to YouGov, yet neither the government nor the opposition are representing this view. This is also a rapidly evolving situation, and so to change your position in light of new events or information should be encouraged. The ship has long since sailed in pretending Starmer has anything like principles. A ceasefire would potentially allow the terrorists to regroup and attack again. They now have even less to lose. If they cared as much about Palestinians as 76% of whoever then this wouldn’t be happening anyway. They knew this was coming after what they did and planned this to happen. f***ing retards.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 31 Oct 23 4.30pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
A ceasefire would potentially allow the terrorists to regroup and attack again. They now have even less to lose. If they cared as much about Palestinians as 76% of whoever then this wouldn’t be happening anyway. They knew this was coming after what they did and planned this to happen. f***ing retards. This is such bad logic, I keep seeing that point made everywhere, presumably because it’s being banded about in media circles - that logic essentially dictates that no military ceasefire can ever happen, because the opposition could potentially regroup… it’s just objective nonsense.
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| cryrst The garden of England 31 Oct 23 6.53pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
This is such bad logic, I keep seeing that point made everywhere, presumably because it’s being banded about in media circles - that logic essentially dictates that no military ceasefire can ever happen, because the opposition could potentially regroup… it’s just objective nonsense. If you look at much historical cessation of the type Israel are doing you will see that it isn’t really objective. If Ukraine stopped and had a ceasefire what would happen, the Sudanese army against the RSF, the romans stopped and sat still then got gubbed by the celts to great effect. A ceasefire has to have two way conditions. Can you see Hamas the terrorists laying down their guns and missiles. They are still firing them daily so they don’t want one!
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| Matov 31 Oct 23 9.41pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
If you look at much historical cessation of the type Israel are doing you will see that it isn’t really objective. If Ukraine stopped and had a ceasefire what would happen, the Sudanese army against the RSF, the romans stopped and sat still then got gubbed by the celts to great effect. A ceasefire has to have two way conditions. Can you see Hamas the terrorists laying down their guns and missiles. They are still firing them daily so they don’t want one! Issue is though what are the win conditions? When will Israel know it has been successful? This is the issue. Gazza City is about 106 square kilomentres. It has its utility supplies controlled by foreign powers. Its civilians are not free to come and go. It is, by any kind of definition, an effective concentration camp. So the Israelis bomb and bomb it. Lets assume they kill every active member of Hammas in Gazza. Does that make the problem go away? Or does it just clear the way for another generation to take their place? And then we get this repeated, again and again?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Jacey 03 Nov 23 11.44am |
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We can only hope that Starmer can see some sense for a change and goes.
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 03 Nov 23 9.30pm |
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So Labour values are now muslim values per the councillor? The reaping of what we have sown is truly here
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| cryrst The garden of England 04 Nov 23 6.45am |
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Originally posted by Jacey
We can only hope that Starmer can see some sense for a change and goes. Why? Because he’s upset a few Muslims in a Christian country. I don’t like his party but with this alone he’s garnered an amount of respect I never believed I would ever have for him. If/when labour get in they need to stand strong against all this anti west anti Jew mantras. Alternatively any one who doesn’t feel they want to live in our country and abide by our laws alongside accepting our customs, cultures and beliefs as part of being a resident can f*** right off to a country which may offer exactly what they want. They won’t though cos they have less scruples than jimmy f***ing saville the mouthy t***s.
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