Dublin..stabby school attack....now a Riot

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 24 Nov 23 3.55pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 I agree. What is labelled as ‘the right’ however is not so much anymore, it’s just politicians using dog whistles to try and enhance what will already be a weak or diminishing support. I’m no expert on ‘globalist’ or any other alleged ‘conspiracy’ but I think what we are seeing is that democracy is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Hence we will see further discord and agitation as grievances, often not without substance, from inhabitants of countries are completely dismissed as an agenda is pushed across the board that cares not for them nor democratic rule, even those as diluted as the apparent choice of two we have here and in the states. Everything is often seen as authoritarian with a ‘left wing’ facade now which I would suggest serves the powers that be well, keeps us all bickering amongst ourselves. Any shift to a ‘right’ however, IMHO, would be equally ineffective. Im pretty sure this is what has kept an undoubtedly very poor Tory party in power. The ideologies that once defined these parties are now just fronts through which they identify. Blimey, I really do sound like a ‘conspiracy’ peddler, perhaps I need a T-shirt with a big Q on it? Either way, I don’t believe my thoughts and observations are without substance. Very true. You don't at all!
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 24 Nov 23 3.55pm

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Originally posted by Nicholas91

I agree.

What is labelled as ‘the right’ however is not so much anymore, it’s just politicians using dog whistles to try and enhance what will already be a weak or diminishing support.

I’m no expert on ‘globalist’ or any other alleged ‘conspiracy’ but I think what we are seeing is that democracy is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Hence we will see further discord and agitation as grievances, often not without substance, from inhabitants of countries are completely dismissed as an agenda is pushed across the board that cares not for them nor democratic rule, even those as diluted as the apparent choice of two we have here and in the states.

Everything is often seen as authoritarian with a ‘left wing’ facade now which I would suggest serves the powers that be well, keeps us all bickering amongst ourselves. Any shift to a ‘right’ however, IMHO, would be equally ineffective. Im pretty sure this is what has kept an undoubtedly very poor Tory party in power. The ideologies that once defined these parties are now just fronts through which they identify.

Blimey, I really do sound like a ‘conspiracy’ peddler, perhaps I need a T-shirt with a big Q on it? Either way, I don’t believe my thoughts and observations are without substance.

Very true.

You don't at all!

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Stirlingsays 24 Nov 23 3.56pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I largely agree with this. But also the frustration of that reality should be aimed at the politicians, particularly those on the right, who have purported to represent a view and promised to tackle a problem, and in fact done the exact opposite in many cases. Certainly. The uniparty meme is true. Because of the IRA stuff I always felt animosity towards Corbyn more than a typical Labour leader. However, even I think he was treated shabbily. The establishment and its media arm misrepresented him and essentially took him out...Blairites even throwing him out of his own party. That doesn't sit well with me. Corbyn represents the base of his party and I don't think that large schisms should exist between base and leaderships. This has happened to both main parties and it makes a mockery of their democratic claims.....They essentially want as much control as possible and laws put there in the past to limit state control aren't respected and have been superseded by new laws that....well are essentially 'trust me bro'. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Nov 23 3.56pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I largely agree with this.

But also the frustration of that reality should be aimed at the politicians, particularly those on the right, who have purported to represent a view and promised to tackle a problem, and in fact done the exact opposite in many cases.

Certainly.

The uniparty meme is true.

Because of the IRA stuff I always felt animosity towards Corbyn more than a typical Labour leader. However, even I think he was treated shabbily. The establishment and its media arm misrepresented him and essentially took him out...Blairites even throwing him out of his own party.

That doesn't sit well with me. Corbyn represents the base of his party and I don't think that large schisms should exist between base and leaderships.

This has happened to both main parties and it makes a mockery of their democratic claims.....They essentially want as much control as possible and laws put there in the past to limit state control aren't respected and have been superseded by new laws that....well are essentially 'trust me bro'.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 24 Nov 23 4.04pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Have you considered the reaction if they did actually stop immigration? The people may largely be happy: but the BBC, the UN, the EU, the media in general? How would the government be portrayed if they did even stop the boats, for example? I would give it around fifty seconds before whoever did it was labelled as a Nazi. Even mooting the idea is equated to far right - which has now become meaningless, frankly. The media largely tell people what they want to hear, or what they think people want to hear. We've just had a saga with a ludicrous policy involved a small east African country, which frankly didn't receive half the ridicule it should have from the media, so I don't think the reaction to grown up conversations around immigration would be anywhere near as bad as you suggest. The whole Brexit campaign was essentially fought on anti-immigration lines and there was plenty of support for, or at least acceptance of, it in the media. The issue is amongst sensible conversation on immigration, there is a lot of nonsense from both extremes which distorts things, and frankly makes it much easier to dismiss the topic as a whole. Many on the left seem to think an open border is a reasonable way to run a country, and that's just as ludicrous as thinking you can send people to east Africa.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 24 Nov 23 4.04pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Have you considered the reaction if they did actually stop immigration? The people may largely be happy: but the BBC, the UN, the EU, the media in general? How would the government be portrayed if they did even stop the boats, for example? I would give it around fifty seconds before whoever did it was labelled as a Nazi. Even mooting the idea is equated to far right - which has now become meaningless, frankly.

The media largely tell people what they want to hear, or what they think people want to hear.

We've just had a saga with a ludicrous policy involved a small east African country, which frankly didn't receive half the ridicule it should have from the media, so I don't think the reaction to grown up conversations around immigration would be anywhere near as bad as you suggest.

The whole Brexit campaign was essentially fought on anti-immigration lines and there was plenty of support for, or at least acceptance of, it in the media.

The issue is amongst sensible conversation on immigration, there is a lot of nonsense from both extremes which distorts things, and frankly makes it much easier to dismiss the topic as a whole.

Many on the left seem to think an open border is a reasonable way to run a country, and that's just as ludicrous as thinking you can send people to east Africa.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 24 Nov 23 4.09pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Certainly. The uniparty meme is true. Because of the IRA stuff I always felt animosity towards Corbyn more than a typical Labour leader. However, even I think he was treated shabbily. The establishment and its media arm misrepresented him and essentially took him out...Blairites even throwing him out of his own party. That doesn't sit well with me. Corbyn represents the base of his party and I don't think that large schisms should exist between base and leaderships. This has happened to both main parties and it makes a mockery of their democratic claims.....They essentially want as much control as possible and laws put there in the past to limit state control aren't respected and have been superseded by new laws that....well are essentially 'trust me bro'. Kudos for the admission around Corbyn's treatment - I have to say I think anyone being honest can see it was a complete hatchet job to derail his campaign, as I'd imagine would be the case with any politician on the left or right who does not align with corporate agendas. It was a wake-up call to me as to the extent of some people's tribalism in politics that this reality was and is so strongly denied - the media taking down parliamentary candidates is not a good thing for anyone long-term, regardless of your politics. There are many areas I disagree with Corbyn - his recent interview with Piers Morgan was a perfect reminder of his rather large blind spots - but as you say, he's a politician who at least attempts to represent the people who elect him and has something resembling beliefs and principles. And he was destroyed because of that.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 24 Nov 23 4.09pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Certainly.

The uniparty meme is true.

That doesn't sit well with me. Corbyn represents the base of his party and I don't think that large schisms should exist between base and leaderships.

Kudos for the admission around Corbyn's treatment - I have to say I think anyone being honest can see it was a complete hatchet job to derail his campaign, as I'd imagine would be the case with any politician on the left or right who does not align with corporate agendas.

It was a wake-up call to me as to the extent of some people's tribalism in politics that this reality was and is so strongly denied - the media taking down parliamentary candidates is not a good thing for anyone long-term, regardless of your politics.

There are many areas I disagree with Corbyn - his recent interview with Piers Morgan was a perfect reminder of his rather large blind spots - but as you say, he's a politician who at least attempts to represent the people who elect him and has something resembling beliefs and principles. And he was destroyed because of that.

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Nov 23 4.28pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Kudos for the admission around Corbyn's treatment - I have to say I think anyone being honest can see it was a complete hatchet job to derail his campaign, as I'd imagine would be the case with any politician on the left or right who does not align with corporate agendas. It was a wake-up call to me as to the extent of some people's tribalism in politics that this reality was and is so strongly denied - the media taking down parliamentary candidates is not a good thing for anyone long-term, regardless of your politics. There are many areas I disagree with Corbyn - his recent interview with Piers Morgan was a perfect reminder of his rather large blind spots - but as you say, he's a politician who at least attempts to represent the people who elect him and has something resembling beliefs and principles. And he was destroyed because of that. You mean like campaigning against Brexit? He sold out and paid the price.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Nov 23 4.28pm

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

There are many areas I disagree with Corbyn - his recent interview with Piers Morgan was a perfect reminder of his rather large blind spots - but as you say, he's a politician who at least attempts to represent the people who elect him and has something resembling beliefs and principles. And he was destroyed because of that.

You mean like campaigning against Brexit?

He sold out and paid the price.

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Hrolf The Ganger 24 Nov 23 4.32pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I largely agree with this. But also the frustration of that reality should be aimed at the politicians, particularly those on the right, who have purported to represent a view and promised to tackle a problem, and in fact done the exact opposite in many cases. Not particularly, but equally. Blair opened the floodgates and the Tories have done nothing to stop the flow. Suddenly, with an election on the horizon, the Tory right want to talk about it. Too little too late.
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Hrolf The Ganger

24 Nov 23 4.32pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I largely agree with this.

But also the frustration of that reality should be aimed at the politicians, particularly those on the right, who have purported to represent a view and promised to tackle a problem, and in fact done the exact opposite in many cases.

Not particularly, but equally.

Blair opened the floodgates and the Tories have done nothing to stop the flow.

Suddenly, with an election on the horizon, the Tory right want to talk about it.

Too little too late.

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corkery Cork City 24 Nov 23 5.15pm
Originally posted by eaglesdare It's all over the news here. The Brazilian was a delivero driver who works and pays taxes and got a visa into the country and is a credit to society. Unlike all the unvetted criminals comming into country. Just a week ago a Slovakian was jailed for the murder of a young school teacher. This immigrant never worked a day in his life and sponged off the state for 10 years. I can absolutely understand the anger in the country. Edited by eaglesdare (24 Nov 2023 2.39pm) He was a Slovakian Roma. They should be banned from every country. We'll never die
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corkery

Cork City 24 Nov 23 5.15pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

It's all over the news here.

The Brazilian was a delivero driver who works and pays taxes and got a visa into the country and is a credit to society.

Unlike all the unvetted criminals comming into country.

Just a week ago a Slovakian was jailed for the murder of a young school teacher. This immigrant never worked a day in his life and sponged off the state for 10 years.

I can absolutely understand the anger in the country.

Edited by eaglesdare (24 Nov 2023 2.39pm)

He was a Slovakian Roma. They should be banned from every country.

We'll never die

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Stirlingsays 24 Nov 23 5.41pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Kudos for the admission around Corbyn's treatment - I have to say I think anyone being honest can see it was a complete hatchet job to derail his campaign, as I'd imagine would be the case with any politician on the left or right who does not align with corporate agendas. It was a wake-up call to me as to the extent of some people's tribalism in politics that this reality was and is so strongly denied - the media taking down parliamentary candidates is not a good thing for anyone long-term, regardless of your politics. There are many areas I disagree with Corbyn - his recent interview with Piers Morgan was a perfect reminder of his rather large blind spots - but as you say, he's a politician who at least attempts to represent the people who elect him and has something resembling beliefs and principles. And he was destroyed because of that. Corbyn is instinctively anti nationalist and pro 'outgroup' and as such he couldn't bring himself to condemn Hamas, much in the same way he couldn't bring himself to with the IRA. These are organisations dedicated to fighting nationalism (even though many of them are also nationalists), but fighting for the out-group against an in-group nationalism is one of his core beliefs. Being a nationalist myself, who believes society can only stay together based on an cohesive in-group (if you are going to ignore genetics) That society can only be built on a strongly promoted monoculture. So, I'm instinctively against Corbyn. But what I think as an individual shouldn't be important....if democracy rules. The people who support Corbyn deserve representation just as much as anyone I would support....Probably Tice at this point. If that means we'd end up with a Corbyn government then that's natural justice. There must be a greater tolerance for different visions and an acceptance that the party that gets most support gets to implement their ideas (as long as they don't ban or filter political opposition). Arguing against policy is one thing but permanent oppositions that hinders actual implementations, be it the deep state in America against Trump or the media and security services against Corbyn, it's an incredibly damaging influence for trust in society......This is not what the west was meant to be. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Nov 2023 8.22pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 Nov 23 5.41pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Corbyn is instinctively anti nationalist and pro 'outgroup' and as such he couldn't bring himself to condemn Hamas, much in the same way he couldn't bring himself to with the IRA. These are organisations dedicated to fighting nationalism (even though many of them are also nationalists), but fighting for the out-group against an in-group nationalism is one of his core beliefs.

Being a nationalist myself, who believes society can only stay together based on an cohesive in-group (if you are going to ignore genetics) That society can only be built on a strongly promoted monoculture. So, I'm instinctively against Corbyn.

But what I think as an individual shouldn't be important....if democracy rules. The people who support Corbyn deserve representation just as much as anyone I would support....Probably Tice at this point.

If that means we'd end up with a Corbyn government then that's natural justice. There must be a greater tolerance for different visions and an acceptance that the party that gets most support gets to implement their ideas (as long as they don't ban or filter political opposition).

Arguing against policy is one thing but permanent oppositions that hinders actual implementations, be it the deep state in America against Trump or the media and security services against Corbyn, it's an incredibly damaging influence for trust in society......This is not what the west was meant to be.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Nov 2023 8.22pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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PalazioVecchio south pole 24 Nov 23 7.11pm
in Ireland today, the backlash against the rioters seems much stronger than any backlash against the stabber of kindergarten kids. The Sinn Fein leader has decried thuggish racist violent street disorder.....pretty rich coming from the leader of a party that still marches in para-military uniforms and calls for the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador. similar judgmental words from Leo Varadkar. The comments underneath the attached video are choice.... [Link] Eze Peasy at Anfield....
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 24 Nov 23 7.11pm

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in Ireland today, the backlash against the rioters seems much stronger than any backlash against the stabber of kindergarten kids.

The Sinn Fein leader has decried thuggish racist violent street disorder.....pretty rich coming from the leader of a party that still marches in para-military uniforms and calls for the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador.

similar judgmental words from Leo Varadkar.

The comments underneath the attached video are choice....

[Link]

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 24 Nov 23 7.57pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio in Ireland today, the backlash against the rioters seems much stronger than any backlash against the stabber of kindergarten kids. The Sinn Fein leader has decried thuggish racist violent street disorder.....pretty rich coming from the leader of a party that still marches in para-military uniforms and calls for the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador. similar judgmental words from Leo Varadkar. The comments underneath the attached video are choice.... [Link] I don’t think it matters, they’re all singing from the same hymn sheet. Will we see revolutionary, rises of ‘the people’ across Europe? I see it as unlikely but very far from impossible. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 24 Nov 23 7.57pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

in Ireland today, the backlash against the rioters seems much stronger than any backlash against the stabber of kindergarten kids.

The Sinn Fein leader has decried thuggish racist violent street disorder.....pretty rich coming from the leader of a party that still marches in para-military uniforms and calls for the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador.

similar judgmental words from Leo Varadkar.

The comments underneath the attached video are choice....

[Link]

I don’t think it matters, they’re all singing from the same hymn sheet. Will we see revolutionary, rises of ‘the people’ across Europe? I see it as unlikely but very far from impossible.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 24 Nov 23 7.59pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio in Ireland today, the backlash against the rioters seems much stronger than any backlash against the stabber of kindergarten kids. The Sinn Fein leader has decried thuggish racist violent street disorder.....pretty rich coming from the leader of a party that still marches in para-military uniforms and calls for the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador. similar judgmental words from Leo Varadkar. The comments underneath the attached video are choice.... [Link] Usual tactics; deflect away from the underlying problem and get everybody to look in a different direction. Nothing to see here but look over there… hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.
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Behind Enemy Lines

Sussex 24 Nov 23 7.59pm

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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

in Ireland today, the backlash against the rioters seems much stronger than any backlash against the stabber of kindergarten kids.

similar judgmental words from Leo Varadkar.

The comments underneath the attached video are choice....

[Link]

Usual tactics; deflect away from the underlying problem and get everybody to look in a different direction. Nothing to see here but look over there…

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 24 Nov 23 8.12pm
Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines Usual tactics; deflect away from the underlying problem and get everybody to look in a different direction. Nothing to see here but look over there… And the vilifying of dissenting voices. It’s a bit like forcing everybody to live in igloos, then denouncing people who light fires, labelling them ‘arsonists’. “An extreme but minority faction of arsonists appallingly took to starting uncontrolled blazes in our community today, endangering the lives of others, whilst we were all trying to mourn the unfortunate passing of poor little Jimmy, who froze to death”. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 24 Nov 23 8.12pm

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

Usual tactics; deflect away from the underlying problem and get everybody to look in a different direction. Nothing to see here but look over there…

And the vilifying of dissenting voices.

It’s a bit like forcing everybody to live in igloos, then denouncing people who light fires, labelling them ‘arsonists’.

“An extreme but minority faction of arsonists appallingly took to starting uncontrolled blazes in our community today, endangering the lives of others, whilst we were all trying to mourn the unfortunate passing of poor little Jimmy, who froze to death”.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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