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May 24 2024 1.18am

Andy Burnham , too late

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 15 Jan 24 9.45pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Alternatively arrest anyone who breaks the law regardless of their background.

Of course. Backgrounds should never be an excuse for police inaction. A criminal is a criminal. The time for that is when a defence lawyer makes a case for mitigation. Which would be extremely unlikely to succeed in these circumstances.

 


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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 16 Jan 24 5.22am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course. Backgrounds should never be an excuse for police inaction. A criminal is a criminal. The time for that is when a defence lawyer makes a case for mitigation. Which would be extremely unlikely to succeed in these circumstances.

Way back in the grooming thread you said it was irrelevant if the groomers were Asian, black or blue. A criminal is a criminal. In its literal sense yes, but tbh that ship sailed and these are proven and proving to be , by a huge amount muslim men and women. All aware and taking part. Certain crimes need certain identifiers.
Itís a bit rich for these people to want assistance from the public when the public around these scum approve of it due to a loyalty to Islam and its rules.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 16 Jan 24 7.07am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Way back in the grooming thread you said it was irrelevant if the groomers were Asian, black or blue. A criminal is a criminal. In its literal sense yes, but tbh that ship sailed and these are proven and proving to be , by a huge amount muslim men and women. All aware and taking part. Certain crimes need certain identifiers.
Itís a bit rich for these people to want assistance from the public when the public around these scum approve of it due to a loyalty to Islam and its rules.

They have to take the stance that they do, otherwise their dogma of multi-culturalism being a great success and an unmitigated blessing is compromised. Their politics are more important to them than the lives of young white girls.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 16 Jan 24 8.11am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Way back in the grooming thread you said it was irrelevant if the groomers were Asian, black or blue. A criminal is a criminal. In its literal sense yes, but tbh that ship sailed and these are proven and proving to be , by a huge amount muslim men and women. All aware and taking part. Certain crimes need certain identifiers.
Itís a bit rich for these people to want assistance from the public when the public around these scum approve of it due to a loyalty to Islam and its rules.

Itís outcomes that matter and not the sensitivities of individuals. I am quite sure that the police when told of a grooming event involving young girls being given alcohol and drugs in a flat above a fast food shop wonít start looking for the perpetrators in Harrods. Thatís not the point though. It is to find ways to get the bulk of the Muslim community on the side of law and order and prepared to give up the evil among them. Itís not a loyalty to Islam thatís involved but the belief that their whole community is being tarred with the same brush and considered complicit. Which they then become through their silence.

That circle needs to be broken and it wonít be unless we break it.

 


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View palace_in_frogland's Profile palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 16 Jan 24 8.49am Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Itís outcomes that matter and not the sensitivities of individuals. I am quite sure that the police when told of a grooming event involving young girls being given alcohol and drugs in a flat above a fast food shop wonít start looking for the perpetrators in Harrods. Thatís not the point though. It is to find ways to get the bulk of the Muslim community on the side of law and order and prepared to give up the evil among them. Itís not a loyalty to Islam thatís involved but the belief that their whole community is being tarred with the same brush and considered complicit. Which they then become through their silence.

That circle needs to be broken and it wonít be unless we break it.

If the bulk of the Muslim community are not currently on the side of law and order, we would appear to have a very serious problem, given the number of Muslims in the country.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 16 Jan 24 11.22am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Itís outcomes that matter and not the sensitivities of individuals. I am quite sure that the police when told of a grooming event involving young girls being given alcohol and drugs in a flat above a fast food shop wonít start looking for the perpetrators in Harrods. Thatís not the point though. It is to find ways to get the bulk of the Muslim community on the side of law and order and prepared to give up the evil among them. Itís not a loyalty to Islam thatís involved but the belief that their whole community is being tarred with the same brush and considered complicit. Which they then become through their silence.

That circle needs to be broken and it wonít be unless we break it.

Not following the logic here. People believe their community is considered complicit when they don't come forward so they don't come forward thus making them complicit?

1. Aren't we all supposed to be British now? Or does that only apply to rights not responsibilities?
2. Do the police really rely on community relations to this extent? Do they only arrest criminals when their communities, whoever they may be, report them?

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 16 Jan 24 11.22am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not making excuses for anything. Itís this kind of misrepresentation of my approach which is truly disgusting. So, for the avoidance of any doubt, let me state it again.

Those who groom vulnerable children and exploit them for sexual purposes are the worst kind of criminals. They need to be found, prosecuted and locked away from society for as long as it takes to ensure that not only they cannot reoffend but others are deterred from anything similar. If that means they must spend the rest of their life locked up so be it. If it requires chemical castration so be it.

Thatís the outcome I seek. The only point of difference I think exists is how that outcome is best achieved. The police cannot work in isolation. They need the active support of the community to report crimes and identify criminals. Ostracising whole sections of the community by asserting they are guilty by association cannot help the police. We need the Muslim community to be on the side of truth and justice and not driven to close ranks in self protection.

Thatís why I criticise the likes of Yaxley-Lennon who is a rabble rouser and not someone seriously concerned with the issue. Sections of the tabloid press are as bad. These all make things worse, rather than better.

So I have more sympathy for the police than some do. Not only do they have to deal with this whilst being under resourced, they also have to try to contain negative influences like Y-L , whilst getting little to no support from a suspicious community and being pilloried in the tabloid press.

If individual officers failed to do their duty then they should be disciplined. If there was much more than that which failed, as I think is the case, then it needs to be identified and rectified.

That several police forces appear to have adopted identical strategies suggests to me that they were working to instructions. Instructions that might have been issued for the best of intentions but, with experience, have been shown wanting.

Ensuring a cultural change must be the ultimate aim. We cannot just lock people up for ever, let alone tolerate the behaviour that causes it. It has to be done. There is no other choice, so defeatism is not an option. I am optimistic that it can be done, so long as we remain determined and uncompromising in what is expected. There are already many good and hardworking people in the UK who consider themselves to be Muslim. We need to get them to take the lead in helping solve this kind of issue.

Itís why I believe it needs to start with removing all religious influences in schools and ensuring no school has a dominant faith group present in any capacity. We need to teach every child our values and ensure they all experience people from many backgrounds.

I dislike that grifting cokehead as much as anyone, but I struggle to criticise him on this topic - whether his concern on the matter was 'serious' or opportunistic or whatever else, is largely irrelevant - he was on the right side of this, and the authorities weren't.

Most criticism I have seen of the police on this topic are entirely justified, and then some.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 16 Jan 24 11.24am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Indeed.

They don't care about the principles involved in whatever happens.

All they care about is what the public thinks. It's why that the postmasters drama actually produced results....It's why the Times article on grooming produced results.

There was nothing in both these situations that the establishment didn't know or were aware of....for years...they just ignored it as did as little as humanly possible to draw attention to it.

This approach has always been true for an extent....But especially from Blair onwards....it's why these governments spend so much time and energy on courting media owners and outlets.....They lobby them to ignore or run with what is presented to the general public...the public get sold a fantasy of objective reporters and politicans....when instead what they get told is often a kind of 'spin' that has been decided wholly or in part by those it would affect....often depending upon a 'you scratch my back situation' or the political attitudes of those involved....It's an industry that whole comedy series have previously touched on.

It is political low life behaviour and it's the norm on both left and right.

It's a problem with the type of people that secular nihilism produces.....we get the neo/social liberal version of it.....but a lack of care to the extent of disregard for objective truth over spin or filtering out is dangerous in whatever political landscape it exists within.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jan 2024 4.18pm)

Good post - the relationship between our 'free' press and our politicians is one of the fundamental reasons our democracy is so f***ed.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (16 Jan 2024 11.25am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 16 Jan 24 11.34am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Good post - the relationship between our 'free' press and our politicians is one of the fundamental reasons our democracy is so f***ed.

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (16 Jan 2024 11.25am)

I tip my hat.

Yes, the 'free press', is like the 'free market' and 'free speech', insomuch that none of them have ever been free.

It's only ever been a question of how free and on what with perspectives differing dependent upon which political shade someone sits in.

Yes, democracy is largely a lie and what gets sold to people is really just a form of elite control.

The Swiss probably run the most democratic system.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jan 2024 11.39am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 16 Jan 24 11.44am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I tip my hat.

Yes, the 'free press', is like the 'free market' and 'free speech', insomuch that none of them have ever been free.

It's only ever been a question of how free and on what with perspectives differing dependent upon which political shade someone sits in.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jan 2024 11.35am)

Indeed.

'Tis why (I mentioned on the US Politics thread, but also relevant here) the mud slinging that goes on between politicians, always covered so diligently by the press, has become somewhat irrelevant for me.

The thought that members of the press or even more laughably politicians are holding themselves up as moral, honest and virtuous champions against the opposition is only ever a pot and kettle exercise.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 16 Jan 24 12.02pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Yes, democracy is largely a lie and what gets sold to people is really just a form of elite control.

The Swiss probably run the most democratic system.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jan 2024 11.39am)

the Swiss yes. Maybe because every fecker has a rifle & military training.

The least democratic ? that would be Ireland. A good example being WarPlanes going through Shannon airport while about 99.9% of the public were against it.

now, getting back to the OP. What 'community' in the UK , controls the Heroin trade ?

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 16 Jan 24 12.33pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Windrush does not belong on that list.

I think he means the later deportation of those without the correct paperwork

 

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