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April 17 2024 6.11am

Forest v Palace Match Thread

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View eagleman13's Profile eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 01 Apr 24 5.12pm Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

Would you put circa £150mil on a horse at 25-1?, that is what is at risk if we take any advice from bookies. We still have to get the required number of points to stay up which has to be more than the team at 18th can achieve from the remaining games. Until we are mathematical safe, he is of course, quite rightly going to be cautious, his job is worth nothing if we are relegated because he has looked at the bookies odds and then decides, oh, we are safe now, because the bookies say so. As for the past games against NF, Luton and then Bournemouth tomorrow, these are really the games that we could not afford to lose under any circumstances and therefore he has to select the best he has got available to achieve this objective. This now is not the right time to try out players with no experience, not losing under any circumstances is his most important consideration!

Again, I wish there was a 'like' button.

 


I'm a blind man, i'm a blind man, now my room is cold,
When a blind man cries, Lord, he feels it from his soul.
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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 01 Apr 24 5.27pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by pssguy

I didn't mention style it was player selection/substitutions that was the content of my post

How are bookies odds irrelevant! They exactly reflect what people think are the chances of us going down are and the best odds you can get are 25-1

I was not complaining about the results just the same old plodding out of Schlupp and Hughes. He will need to find out the qualities of some of the younger players in a agame situation and it's better for them to be against Luton or Forest than the tougher games ahead. Mateta was gassed after 80 minutes and was barely challenging their defenders. A faster, fresher player would have harried their defenders more and been more help on a fast break.

Glasner's subs have contributed to those results. It's disappointing that we only have 2 points to show from the Luton and Forest games, but had we not got those results it would mean the option of being able to introduce younger, untried players would be even more difficult to exercise.

 


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View pssguy's Profile pssguy Flag 01 Apr 24 6.11pm Send a Private Message to pssguy Add pssguy as a friend

Originally posted by Den1923

Would you put circa £150mil on a horse at 25-1?, that is what is at risk if we take any advice from bookies. We still have to get the required number of points to stay up which has to be more than the team at 18th can achieve from the remaining games. Until we are mathematical safe, he is of course, quite rightly going to be cautious, his job is worth nothing if we are relegated because he has looked at the bookies odds and then decides, oh, we are safe now, because the bookies say so. As for the past games against NF, Luton and then Bournemouth tomorrow, these are really the games that we could not afford to lose under any circumstances and therefore he has to select the best he has got available to achieve this objective. This now is not the right time to try out players with no experience, not losing under any circumstances is his most important consideration!

The odds are now 50-1 so as you are so pessimistic, I suggest you have a flutter.

Assuming Burnley and Sheffield are down, the most the third relegation club can get is 38 points. To exceed that we would need a point a game, which is what we have averaged this year. The run in is tough and though should get some players back we will do well to get that number. However, you are suggesting we need to get there (i.e. to be mathematically safe). That would mean Luton and Forest would have to go on an eight game winning streak and Everton get 13 points from 9 games and Brentford get 11 games from 8 games: and this is before taking into account that Everton may get docked more points and that some of them play each other e.g Everton play both Forest and Luton. That's lunacy

I haven't got time to go into the data but Schlupp and Hughes, especially, have been regularly used as subs and as we all know we have let in a lot of late goals. There is little evidence to suggest they help the team more than say, Ozoh or Ahamada


 

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View Den1923's Profile Den1923 Flag 01 Apr 24 6.36pm Send a Private Message to Den1923 Add Den1923 as a friend

Originally posted by pssguy

The odds are now 50-1 so as you are so pessimistic, I suggest you have a flutter.

Assuming Burnley and Sheffield are down, the most the third relegation club can get is 38 points. To exceed that we would need a point a game, which is what we have averaged this year. The run in is tough and though should get some players back we will do well to get that number. However, you are suggesting we need to get there (i.e. to be mathematically safe). That would mean Luton and Forest would have to go on an eight game winning streak and Everton get 13 points from 9 games and Brentford get 11 games from 8 games: and this is before taking into account that Everton may get docked more points and that some of them play each other e.g Everton play both Forest and Luton. That's lunacy

I haven't got time to go into the data but Schlupp and Hughes, especially, have been regularly used as subs and as we all know we have let in a lot of late goals. There is little evidence to suggest they help the team more than say, Ozoh or Ahamada


We will have to agree to disagree, frankly if the odds were 100-1 its still too risky to take chances until we are mathematically safe. He is the Boss and has the experience, so for me, I'm with and Trust him to deliver. I don't have any faith in bookies and do not know any poor ones either!

 

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View MrRobbo's Profile MrRobbo Flag Purley 02 Apr 24 9.55am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

Originally posted by doombear

Here's one national newspaper journalist's view of Wharton and our DF.

"Wharton the latest Palace gem
Crystal Palace’s admired recruitment department have unearthed another gem in Adam Wharton, the 19-year-old bought for £18.5m from Blackburn in January. If Eberechi Eze was the outstanding player at the City Ground, his runs dovetailed with Wharton, whose vision and weight of left-foot passes were on point on a number of occasions. To follow Eze and Michael Olise, Wharton is the latest Palace diamond mined from the EFL, where talent abounds if you look in the right places. Daniel Muñoz, the Colombian defender also signed in January, also put in a fine performance at Forest. Little wonder Dougie Freedman, the former Palace striker and manager turned Eagles sporting director, is one of the most respected members of football’s ever-growing class of front-office execs. That Palace are renowned as a talent factory is tribute to the department Freedman heads up. Wharton, capped by England Under-21’s last week, represents the latest proof. (John Brewin The Guardian from that paper's Premier League 10 talking points from the weekend's games)

You can read the other 9 talking points here
[Link]

Couldn't agree more re Wharton. He should have come away from the game with a couple of assists.

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 02 Apr 24 10.22am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by pssguy

The odds are now 50-1 so as you are so pessimistic, I suggest you have a flutter.

Assuming Burnley and Sheffield are down, the most the third relegation club can get is 38 points. To exceed that we would need a point a game, which is what we have averaged this year. The run in is tough and though should get some players back we will do well to get that number. However, you are suggesting we need to get there (i.e. to be mathematically safe). That would mean Luton and Forest would have to go on an eight game winning streak and Everton get 13 points from 9 games and Brentford get 11 games from 8 games: and this is before taking into account that Everton may get docked more points and that some of them play each other e.g Everton play both Forest and Luton. That's lunacy

I haven't got time to go into the data but Schlupp and Hughes, especially, have been regularly used as subs and as we all know we have let in a lot of late goals. There is little evidence to suggest they help the team more than say, Ozoh or Ahamada


Hodgson, Vieira and now Glasner. All have shown faith in these players over others with successive coaching teams having watched them very carefully in previous games and in training. I trust their judgment over my own.

Also, I do see your point. Put them on and we seem to concede late. So what do we have to lose? However, this late capitulation could be a consequence of quite a few factors. Perhaps it could be even worse with Ozoh and Ahamada?

Edited by silvertop (02 Apr 2024 10.22am)

 

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View Phil’s Barber's Profile Phil’s Barber Flag Crowborough 02 Apr 24 11.00am Send a Private Message to Phil’s Barber Add Phil’s Barber as a friend

I was just disappointed with how unfit and disinterested some of the players looked on Saturday (Munoz & Andersen being the two exceptions), JPM looked even more knackered than usual after just 50 minutes.

Second half when we won a throw in in the Forest half, time & time again not a single person showed any movement or interest and we just lost possession back to Forest. JPM and Eze being the two most likely to receive and the two worst offenders.

For all of Eze’s good play there was equal dross, caught in possession and giving the ball away far too often and his two misses could’ve / should’ve put the game to bed.

Andersen looked properly p*ssed off with the rest of the teams application and as a result ran around furiously for most of the game. Lerma worked hard and Wharton looks an absolute gem. Wardy tries but there’s nothing he can do now about his lack of pace but his distribution is awful poor lad.

Mitchell again frustratingly bad, can’t cope defensively and going forward gives the ball away or plays it into no-mans land; that cross on around 80 minutes was typical of his play. In acres of space on the left wing, under no pressure and just delivers a ball across the 6 yard box without looking, when our two forward players wanted it pulled back.

For all of Forest’s possession we had the better chances and whilst I’m happy with the point and not losing, we have now dropped 20 points from winning positions and it just gets a bit frustrating.

Good support from the travelling fans and it was worth going just to to see Munoz in the left wing position during the first half!

Sorry for the rant


Edited by Phil’s Barber (02 Apr 2024 11.04am)

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 02 Apr 24 11.00am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Hodgson, Vieira and now Glasner. All have shown faith in these players over others with successive coaching teams having watched them very carefully in previous games and in training. I trust their judgment over my own.

Also, I do see your point. Put them on and we seem to concede late. So what do we have to lose? However, this late capitulation could be a consequence of quite a few factors. Perhaps it could be even worse with Ozoh and Ahamada?

Edited by silvertop (02 Apr 2024 10.22am)

If we focus just on the games that Glasner has been in charge for ( and I'm including the Everton game ), and ignoring the win over Burnley, these are the subs he has made ;

V. Everton - Ahamada 72, Ozoh 88. At time of first sub we were winning 1-0.

v. Spurs - Franca 66, Hughes 71, Edouard 71. At time of first sub we were winning 1-0.

v. Luton - Ahamada 70, Hughes 81, Edouard 81. At time of first sub we were winning 1-0.

v. Forest - Schlupp 66, Hughes 80, Clyne 90+4. At time of first sub we were drawing 1-1.

So I think you can easily make a case for Ahamada making no positive impact looking at those stats. Hughes is a common denominator in coming on and losing leads but although Ozoh has shown some early promise he hasn't done enough to get the nod ahead of him.

Schlupp was used as a sub for the first time by Glasner.

 


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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 02 Apr 24 11.11am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber

I was just disappointed with how unfit and disinterested some of the players looked on Saturday (Munoz & Andersen being the two exceptions), JPM looked even more knackered than usual after just 50 minutes.

Second half when we won a throw in in the Forest half, time & time again not a single person showed any movement or interest and we just lost possession back to Forest. JPM and Eze being the two most likely to receive and the two worst offenders.

For all of Eze’s good play there was equal dross, caught in possession and giving the ball away far too often and his two misses could’ve / should’ve put the game to bed.

Andersen looked properly p*ssed off with the rest of the teams application and as a result ran around furiously for most of the game. Lerma worked hard and Wharton looks an absolute gem. Wardy tries but there’s nothing he can do now about his lack of pace but his distribution is awful poor lad.

Mitchell again frustratingly bad, can’t cope defensively and going forward gives the ball away or plays it into no-mans land; that cross on around 80 minutes was typical of his play. In acres of space on the wing, under no pressure and just delivers a ball across the 6 yard box without looking when our two forward players wanted it pulled back.

For all of Forest’s possession we had the better chances and whilst I’m happy with the point and not losing, we have now dropped 20 points for winning positions and it just gets a bit frustrating.

Good support from the travelling fans and it was worth going just to to see Munoz in the left wing position during the first half!

Sorry for the rant

Edited by Phil’s Barber (02 Apr 2024 11.02am)

Nothing wrong with a good rant !

I think we all have to bear in mind that Glasner's preferred way of playing is a struggle for some of the current squad.

JP remarked the other day that he is having to work harder than before and he's not going to get to the required level of stamina/fitness in just a few short weeks.

Eze is still trying to find his rhythm - I find it easier to forgive the missed chances than the sloppy conceding of possession.

Mitchell is I think there by default at the moment. I think his position will be at risk when the transfer window opens up. In the meantime we have to hope he becomes more comfortable in his new role and is getting the coaching he needs to help him succeed.

As for Andersen, he's turned in some way below par performances recently so it was good to see him back in better form.

 


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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 02 Apr 24 11.22am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

Nothing wrong with a good rant !

I think we all have to bear in mind that Glasner's preferred way of playing is a struggle for some of the current squad.

JP remarked the other day that he is having to work harder than before and he's not going to get to the required level of stamina/fitness in just a few short weeks.

Eze is still trying to find his rhythm - I find it easier to forgive the missed chances than the sloppy conceding of possession.

Mitchell is I think there by default at the moment. I think his position will be at risk when the transfer window opens up. In the meantime we have to hope he becomes more comfortable in his new role and is getting the coaching he needs to help him succeed.

As for Andersen, he's turned in some way below par performances recently so it was good to see him back in better form.

I think Mitchell will have a 'stick or twist' conundrum at the end of the season. I can't see him improving massively, his general demeanour seems to be one of permanent resignation. He therefore either stays at Palace, perhaps playing a bit part back up to a more adequate LWB or he looks to move to the likes of a newly promoted team.

He seems destined for obscurity and I say that without resentment or hostility. I'd love to see him step up some gears, grow in confidence and become a much better player but I hold little hope for that eventuality.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View palace99's Profile palace99 Flag New Mills 02 Apr 24 12.29pm Send a Private Message to palace99 Add palace99 as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Utterly pointless response.

Glasner will be looking to offload deadwood and replace with players like Munoz. Was he mega expensive and outside and beyond our reach? No, of course he wasn’t. He will look to become stronger in depth and bring in players that are better than the bottom half of our squad.

Just saying money is a ridiculous glib comment, it’s about finding value for money and selling players at top value to replace with 2 or 3 squad players that are stronger than those we currently have.

good post. Renewing contracts for players like Tomkins who is not a starter and has an awful injury record is just a waste. Similar issue with Jairo etc. The right back slot has been an issue for 4 years, and has only just been addressed. Without Mitchell, for all his faults, we'd be buggered in the LB position.
Not have a younger replacement for Zaha over the last 2 or so years has been a ridiculous oversight.
Ayew's versatility and good injury record has helped paper over some cracks for the last 2 or so seasons.

 

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 02 Apr 24 12.51pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

If we focus just on the games that Glasner has been in charge for ( and I'm including the Everton game ), and ignoring the win over Burnley, these are the subs he has made ;

V. Everton - Ahamada 72, Ozoh 88. At time of first sub we were winning 1-0.

v. Spurs - Franca 66, Hughes 71, Edouard 71. At time of first sub we were winning 1-0.

v. Luton - Ahamada 70, Hughes 81, Edouard 81. At time of first sub we were winning 1-0.

v. Forest - Schlupp 66, Hughes 80, Clyne 90+4. At time of first sub we were drawing 1-1.

So I think you can easily make a case for Ahamada making no positive impact looking at those stats. Hughes is a common denominator in coming on and losing leads but although Ozoh has shown some early promise he hasn't done enough to get the nod ahead of him.

Schlupp was used as a sub for the first time by Glasner.

Interesting read. For me Hughes seems to flatter-to-deceive. He promises to offer something, runs around a lot but is often found out of position or not tracking back At vital moments. Doucoure coming back should be the end of Hughes. Who's place he takes is open to debate though - Lerma and Wharton appear to be working well. It's only when one of them go off we have problems!

I'm surprised that none of the young Striking options didn't get a run for 5-10 mins at the end to give JPM a rest, especially after Glasner praised them recently.
To see Schlupp, Hughes and Clyne all come, and not at least 1 of the others was a little dissapointing imho.

 


"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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