You are here: Home > Message Board > Gold Talk > Blasts in London
May 11 2021 4.26am

Blasts in London

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 67 of 68 < 63 64 65 66 67 68 >

 

View Farawayeagle's Profile Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 19 Jul 05 2.23am Send a Private Message to Farawayeagle Add Farawayeagle as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

6 July 2005
WAS IT SUICIDE?
Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?

By Jeff Edwards
THE London bombers may have been duped into killing themselves so their secrets stayed hidden.

Police and MI5 are probing if the four men were told by their al-Qaeda controller they had time to escape after setting off timers. Instead, the devices exploded immediately.

A security source said: "If the bombers lived and were caught they'd probably have cracked. Would their masters have allowed that to happen? We think not."

The evidence is compelling: The terrorists bought return rail tickets, and pay and display car park tickets, before boarding _ a train at Luton for London. None of the men was heard to cry "Allah Akhbar!" - "God is great" - usually screamed by suicide bombers as they detonate their bomb.

Their devices were in large rucksacks which could be easily dumped instead of being strapped to their bodies. They carried wallets containing their driving licences, bank cards and other personal items. Suicide bombers normally strip themselves of identifying material.

Similar terror attacks against public transport in Madrid last year were carried out by recruits who had time to escape and planned to strike again.

Bomber Hasib Hussain detonated his device at the rear of the top deck of a No 30 bus, not in the middle of the bottom deck where most damage would be caused.

Additionally, two of the bombers had strong personal reasons for staying alive.

Jermaine Lindsay's partner Samantha Lewthwaite, 22, mother of his one-year-old son, is expecting her second baby within days. Mohammed Sidique Khan's wife Hasina, mum of a 14-month-old daughter, is also pregnant.

Our source disclosed: "The theory that they were not a suicide squad is gathering pace. They were the weakest link.

"We think it's possible they were told that when they pressed buttons to set off timers they'd have a short time to abandon the bombs and get away before the blast. Instead, the bombs exploded immediately."

Another intelligence source added: "Whoever is behind this didn't want to waste their best operatives on a suicide mission. Instead they used easily recruited low-grade men who may have believed they'd walk away."

At least 54 people were killed in the 7/7 blasts. Khan, 30, of Dewsbury, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, of Leeds, and Jamaican-born Lindsay, 19, of Aylesbury, Bucks, detonated devices on the Tube at Edgware Road, Aldgate and King's Cross.

Hussain, 18, of Leeds, blasted the bus at Tavistock Square. The Tube explosions went off almost simultaneously. But the bus went up an hour later.

Yesterday, Hussain's family told of their horror at the teenager's involvement in the massacre. They said in a statement: "We are devastated over the events of the past few days. Hasib was a loving and normal young man who gave us no concern and we are having difficulty taking this in.

"Our thoughts are with all the bereaved families. We have to live with the loss of our son in these difficult circumstances.

"We had no knowledge of his activities and, had we done, we would have done everything in our power to stop him. We urge anyone with information to cooperate fully with the authorities."

Police are urgently investigating the missing 81 minutes between Hussain arriving from Luton in London and the time his bomb went off.

His device may have malfunctioned. He may have lost his nerve. Or he may have panicked when he discovered the Northern Line, on which he is thought to have been due to travel, was suspended.

Officers want to discover if Hussain met anyone else who either strengthened his faltering resolve or reset his flawed bomb.

 


Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Farawayeagle's Profile Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 19 Jul 05 2.28am Send a Private Message to Farawayeagle Add Farawayeagle as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Who duped the London bombers?

By GAVIN GATENBY, Possum News Network
18 July 2005

Citing police and MI5 sources, The Mirror.co.uk, a mainstream British internet publication, has now admitted the probability that the four London bombers were in some way duped by a master bomber This theory has been widely reported internationally (for example by the Sydney Morning Herald, 18 July 2005).

In the Mirror’s scenario the master bomber cynically tricked his team into thinking that when they pressed the button, they were setting off a timing device that would give them sufficient time to leave the target area. Instead, they pressed the buttons, detonated the bombs and killed themselves as well as their victims.

According to this scenario the bombers were merely expendable low-level operatives whose death would happily remove the probability that, if caught, they would reveal, under interrogation, details about their controllers and other members of the network.

In its way, this admission is a breakthrough that should allow other more plausible scenarios to emerge for investigation.

In that spirit, let me suggest variants of the “dupes scenario” that I believe are at least equally plausible, given the information currently available to the public .

It’s necessary to understand that the detonators were probably constructed from mobile phones. Mobiles can be used to set off bombs in three ways: by using them as a timer (alarm clock function) or by remote detonation using voice or text message. While unidentified police sources have claimed that no “timers” have so far been found, The London Times had admitted the possibility of mobile phones being used.

There are many problems with the version of the dupes scenario publicized by the Mirror.

If the four men knew they were carrying bombs and believed they were going to plant them before withdrawing safely from the scene it would certainly have occurred to them that the police would afterwards be searching for four men of Islamic background and that they would be recorded on CCTV arriving at Luton, then at Kings Cross and then going their separate ways. They are hardly likely to have ignored this threat. They would certainly have traveled separately and approached the targets from different directions. They would not have blithely assumed they could meet up again at the rented car at Luton to drive home. Nor would they have left more bombs in the car as suggested by some media reports.

The Mirror’s scenario also depends on the three tube bombers (and probably all four of them) activating the bomb timers (perhaps by pressing a button) at an agreed time and unwittingly blowing themselves up. But why would they operate in that way? If the aim was to leave the bombs on the trains – surely the most effective target in terms of death and chaos – then the bombers would have activated the timers as the trains were pulling into a station then got off at the last moment leaving the bombs on board. But in that case, they would all have unwittingly detonated the bombs just as the train was approaching a station.

No, the simplest and most compelling reason for the near simultaneous detonation of the three tube bombs is that the bombs were detonated by timers, and that timers were set running, by some method, at Kings Cross station.

The master bomber’s backup

It is entirely plausible that the master bomber would not have relied solely on the timer. If a timer failed to detonate one of the bombs, a dupe would be left alive and in possession of the evidence. A simple fail-safe detonator might also have used a mobile phone, perhaps the same one used as the timer in each of the bombs. The London Tube system is not equipped for mobile phone reception, but if the master-bomber backed up the timer by sending a text message to the four bombs, the message would have been delivered to the bomb detonators as soon as the unwitting bomber left the underground and entered a mobile phone reception area on the surface.

In my variants the four dupes were recruited to carry out some task, other than a bombing, which involved them going to Luton, where they picked up the bombs, securely packaged to prevent their real contents being detected by the men, then to Kings Cross, where they received further instructions. The purpose for which they were recruited might have been either legal or illegal.

Illegal purposes

• A drug courier run, for which they were promised big money.
• A secret courier task, related perhaps to clandestine support for, say, the Iraqi resistance or a Palestinian group.

In either case the dupes were instructed to proceed to Luton, then by train to Kings Cross to meet a contact who was probably unknown to them, but who, they were assured, would recognize them when they got off the Luton train. This person would tell them where to deliver the stuff. It’s unlikely they would have been given an address to go to. They would have been told to travel individually to four separate destinations – such as the entrance to another railway station – where they would be recognized by the person they were to give the backpack to. That scenario is consistent with standard clandestine operative technique.

Based on what we know of the character and background of the four, I’d rule out the idea that they thought they were drug couriers. More likely, I believe, is that the manipulator would have played on their political and religious sympathies and their sense of adventure. They would have been told they were transferring something important (guns, munitions, currency, explosives – exactly what would probably have been left to their imagination) to separate locations in London for onshipment to the final recipient – possibly the Iraq resistance or a Palestinian group.

Note that in this variant the manipulator might be either an agent provocateur working for Mossad, an American or British secret police faction, or a genuine Islamist, but the cynicism of the manipulation suggests a state operation, rather than that the men were duped by one of their own.

Legal purposes

• A security training exercise. This variant has already been flagged by skeptics. In it the dupes were offered good money to be "the enemy" in a security training exercise played out in the underground and were naive enough to believe the recruiter. They would have been engaged as actors and told they were only required to carry the backpacks to certain destinations to see if they could get them through the security people under training who had been given the “profile” of a suspect. They would also have been told that, for security reasons, they were not under any circumstances to talk to anybody else about the exercise. As a further precaution they would have been told they’d only be informed of their destination when they were briefed at Kings Cross station. They would probably have been told to meet back at the station for a debriefing. Such exercises are a normal part of security training, but we might question whether, in the atmosphere generated by Britain’s role in Iraq, four young Muslims would have been happy to take part.

Arming the bombs

Whatever method was used to dupe the men, they arrived with the bombs at Kings Cross station where they met a contact and were assigned their tasks.

In the case that the men thought they were engaged in a non-legal task, examination of, or tampering with, the backpacks by the contact, who they probably would not have known, would have run the risk of arousing their suspicion. So how, in that case, were the timers activated?

This could easily have been accomplished by the master bomber, or more likely an unseen accomplice, using a modified TV, stereo or garage door remote control. Rigging a remote to turn on and to activate the alarm clock function on a mobile phone would present no difficulty to a techno-terd of average ability.

Why did the fourth bomb explode on the bus?

The mobile phone detonator scenario also provides a plausible explanation for Hasib Mir Hussain’s bomb exploding on the No. 30 bus an hour after the tube bombs.

When the phone-based detonator attached to the bomb he was unwittingly carrying was remotely switched on, the alarm clock function failed to activate. So the bomb failed to detonate twenty minutes after activation and he left the tube either because his train hadn’t arrived (it has been hypothesized that he was supposed to travel on the Northern Line which had been disrupted by technical problems) or he was evacuated from the tube after it ground to a halt in the aftermath of the bombs.

Perhaps he tried to reach his appointed destination by bus. Perhaps he caught the No. 30 to do a little sightseeing. Why not? He’d heard that the whole underground had been knocked out by some sort of a power surge, London was in chaos. He couldn’t contact the man he thought was his controller for the exercise (or in the illegal purpose variant, his London contact) because the phone network was down. And he didn’t know where his three friends were.

As the master bomber listened to the incoming news reports (and perhaps other intelligence) he would have realized that only three bombs had gone off. This would have been a bad moment. Somewhere, out there, was a dupe, still alive and carrying the evidence. If he hadn’t already sent the text message to the bomb detonator, he now did so. But the mobile network was in such chaos that it took another hour before the message was delivered to the bomb on the No. 30.

Keep it Simple, Stupid

The variants of the dupes scenario I am suggesting do not require a large conspiracy in the operational phase. The whole job might have required (apart from the dupes):

• An agent provocateur, to recruit the four.
• A master bomber to plan the operation, supply the bombs and rig the detonators.
• A contact at Kings Cross station to give the dupes their destination and,
• An assistant to remotely activate the mobile phone detonators at Kings Cross.

That’s a nice tight little cell of just four conspirators, or perhaps only three if the master bomber doubled as the contact at Kings Cross or as the unseen assistant. It’s easy to organize, very hard to detect and has a very low chance of failure. An organization such as Mossad would have no difficulty finding three or four hardened b******s for the job … and an overwhelming interest in provoking world outrage against Muslims.

 


Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster
Association

An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club

R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon

GKAS Member 54

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View cpfc-rjd's Profile cpfc-rjd Flag Beckenham and the BBS 19 Jul 05 8.21am Send a Private Message to cpfc-rjd Add cpfc-rjd as a friend

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Very interesting posts as usual faraway...

As to Tony, he must take responsibility for doing too little too late.

-Why didn't he 'get tough' on clerics preaching hatred before 7/7? Everyone knew who they were.

-Why did he not ban known Al-Queda terrorists from entering the UK?

-Why did he not seek to force the Muslim community to take seriously the threat of the Britain hating radicals in their communities?

-Why did he allow our border controls to disintegrate so that an Island is now home to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants?

-Why did he spend so much time promoting ID cards (useless as home grown terrorists would have them and foreign terrorists wouldn't need them) instead of investing in the security services?

He fell asleep on his watch and these murdering scum cowards killed over 50 innocent people.

Now he acts!

Too little, too late.


 


"Her very Lowness with her head in a sling
I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing"

NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT

[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Moose's Profile Moose Flag In the sewer pipe... 19 Jul 05 10.06am Send a Private Message to Moose Add Moose as a friend

I've edited as much of the bile between Pete, HMHS and reborn out of the original topic as I could, hopefully without losing the interesting points that all were making in between salvos!

Please can posters ensure that this thread doesn't descend into a slanging match again!

 


Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View cpfc-rjd's Profile cpfc-rjd Flag Beckenham and the BBS 19 Jul 05 10.51am Send a Private Message to cpfc-rjd Add cpfc-rjd as a friend

.

Edited by cpfc-rjd (19 Jul 2005 10:52am)

 


"Her very Lowness with her head in a sling
I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing"

NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT

[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View reborn's Profile reborn 19 Jul 05 12.38pm Send a Private Message to reborn Add reborn as a friend

No, pi,ss off

Quote cpfc-rjd at 19 Jul 2005 10:51am

.

Edited by cpfc-rjd (19 Jul 2005 10:52am)


 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jul 05 1.40pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Well, it seems to me a great shame that halfmanhalfslug has again taken a walk.

I'll be away myself for a while, but not for the same reasons.

The bombs have reaffirmed my instinct that we divide our collective humanity into groups whose continuing exclusivity threatens the whole.

 


A one and a two...

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View NickinOX's Profile NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 25 Jul 05 5.06pm Send a Private Message to NickinOX Add NickinOX as a friend

Quote tome at 22 Jul 2005 1:40pm
Well, it seems to me a great shame that halfmanhalfslug has again taken a walk.

I'll be away myself for a while, but not for the same reasons.

The bombs have reaffirmed my instinct that we divide our collective humanity into groups whose continuing exclusivity threatens the whole.

Romantic tosh, what a sweeping statement.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View tome's Profile tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 29 Aug 05 4.57pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Quote NickinOX at 25 Jul 2005 5:06pm

Quote tome at 22 Jul 2005 1:40pm
Well, it seems to me a great shame that halfmanhalfslug has again taken a walk.

I'll be away myself for a while, but not for the same reasons.

The bombs have reaffirmed my instinct that we divide our collective humanity into groups whose continuing exclusivity threatens the whole.

Romantic tosh, what a sweeping statement.


I don't detect any romance whatsoever. Where is the romance in the desecrated modernity?

 


A one and a two...

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Christal Palace's Profile Christal Palace Flag 11 Sep 05 5.00pm Send a Private Message to Christal Palace Add Christal Palace as a friend

On the anniversary of September 11th, this thread should also be brought back to the top.

Edited by CPFC Centurion (11 Sep 2005 5:00pm)

 


Peter Taylor's Red 'n' Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
gull_palace1 Flag 0 04 Mar 06 6.19pm

I cannot believe that it is nearly a year since this happened, my dads phone never went dead, i called him, i was off sick that day, i remeber everything, never thought that a terrorist attack would happen to London though, nearly ended up calling our holiday off because of this, at that time ofcourse.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View cpfc-rjd's Profile cpfc-rjd Flag Beckenham and the BBS 06 Mar 06 10.42am Send a Private Message to cpfc-rjd Add cpfc-rjd as a friend

Quote gull_palace1 at 04 Mar 2006 6:19pm

I cannot believe that it is nearly a year since this happened, my dads phone never went dead, i called him, i was off sick that day, i remeber everything, never thought that a terrorist attack would happen to London though, nearly ended up calling our holiday off because of this, at that time ofcourse.


It is strange that it will be the one year anniversary soon. Reading this thread brings a lot of the fear of that day come flooding back.

I often think about the victims and the utter waste of innocent life for such pathetic reasons by impotent little men with warped minds.

London, of course, carried on and I suppose that is how it should be, but it is remarkable how quickly things return to 'normal.'

We all have to get on with our lives but I hope that we, especially in London, keep the victims and their families in our thoughts.

 


"Her very Lowness with her head in a sling
I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing"

NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT

[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 67 of 68 < 63 64 65 66 67 68 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > Gold Talk > Blasts in London