Another black man shot by police in USA

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 6.39pm
Originally posted by 7mins [Link] More than read the news article, I read the report. Quote To begin, fifteen police departments across the country were contacted by the author: Boston, Camden, NYC, Philadelphia, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, six Florida counties, and Tacoma, Washington. Importantly for thinking about the representativeness of the data - many of these cities were a part of the Obama Administration's Police Data Initiative. We received data from all but three of these police departments - NYC, Philadelphia, and Tacoma, Washington - all of which have indicated a willingness to participate in our data collection efforts but have not yet provided data. This is likely not a representative set of cities. The article focuses on Houston for its data points for the use of lethal force. In case you weren't aware, I live in Houston. We are the most racially diverse city in America - suck it, New York! We've had the nation's first openly lesbian mayor, our current mayor is black. It's a strongly liberal leaning city. We are most definitely not a "representative city". Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.45pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 6.39pm

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Originally posted by 7mins

[Link]

More than read the news article, I read the report.

Quote

To begin, fifteen police departments across the country were contacted by the author: Boston, Camden, NYC, Philadelphia, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, six Florida counties, and Tacoma, Washington. Importantly for thinking about the representativeness of the data - many of these cities were a part of the Obama Administration's Police Data Initiative. We received data from all but three of these police departments - NYC, Philadelphia, and Tacoma, Washington - all of which have indicated a willingness to participate in our data collection efforts but have not yet provided data. This is likely not a representative set of cities.

The article focuses on Houston for its data points for the use of lethal force. In case you weren't aware, I live in Houston. We are the most racially diverse city in America - suck it, New York! We've had the nation's first openly lesbian mayor, our current mayor is black. It's a strongly liberal leaning city.

We are most definitely not a "representative city".

Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.45pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 6.44pm
Originally posted by 7mins I think I have more experience than you on being the victim of racism by police. Just hate this trial by media mentality. Did you read the link I supplied? Read and responded. Nowhere near as cut and dried as you, or the article, imply. Even so, the article says of the Houston results: Quote Such results may not be true in every city. The cities Mr. Fryer used to examine officer-involved shootings make up only about 4 percent of the nation’s population, and serve more black citizens than average. And if you have been the victim of racism by police, why do you refuse to follow this to the logical conclusion that a racist cop - or at least one influenced by negative stereotypes - who has lethal force at his disposal, is going to react differently to blacks than whites? Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.48pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 6.44pm

Originally posted by 7mins

I think I have more experience than you on being the victim of racism by police. Just hate this trial by media mentality.
Did you read the link I supplied?

Read and responded. Nowhere near as cut and dried as you, or the article, imply. Even so, the article says of the Houston results:

Quote

Such results may not be true in every city. The cities Mr. Fryer used to examine officer-involved shootings make up only about 4 percent of the nation’s population, and serve more black citizens than average.

And if you have been the victim of racism by police, why do you refuse to follow this to the logical conclusion that a racist cop - or at least one influenced by negative stereotypes - who has lethal force at his disposal, is going to react differently to blacks than whites?

Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.48pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jul 16 7.04pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston And if you have been the victim of racism by police, why do you refuse to follow this to the logical conclusion that a racist cop - or at least one influenced by negative stereotypes - who has lethal force at his disposal, is going to react differently to blacks than whites? Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.48pm) And what do you propose to do about this?
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Jul 16 7.04pm

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Originally posted by Ray in Houston

And if you have been the victim of racism by police, why do you refuse to follow this to the logical conclusion that a racist cop - or at least one influenced by negative stereotypes - who has lethal force at his disposal, is going to react differently to blacks than whites?

Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.48pm)

And what do you propose to do about this?

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 7.06pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And what do you propose to do about this? Step One is accepting that there's a problem... We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 7.06pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And what do you propose to do about this?

Step One is accepting that there's a problem...

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Jul 16 7.10pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Step One is accepting that there's a problem... OK so we accept there's a problem. Then what?
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Jul 16 7.10pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Step One is accepting that there's a problem...

OK so we accept there's a problem. Then what?

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 7.31pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger OK so we accept there's a problem. Then what? Because it's up to me to figure out this mess? Here's an article that highlights how our policing methods aren't working for cops either. We need a complete rethink in we treat police and how police treat us. [Link] Quote Cops are human. They work for an institution with historical ties to slavery and a long legacy of racism. They are indoctrinated in a culture of “us vs. them,” of doing “whatever is necessary so you get home,” of fear, distrust, and dehumanization of those deemed as being on “the other side.” They are taught to fear for their lives. They are trained almost exclusively in tactics of violence and repression. They are sent into situations of conflict every day with those limited tools, into communities where they are playing out tensions that have been brewing for hundreds of years. Reversing some of that would be a good start, I think. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 7.31pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

OK so we accept there's a problem. Then what?

Because it's up to me to figure out this mess?

Here's an article that highlights how our policing methods aren't working for cops either. We need a complete rethink in we treat police and how police treat us.

[Link]

Quote

Cops are human. They work for an institution with historical ties to slavery and a long legacy of racism. They are indoctrinated in a culture of “us vs. them,” of doing “whatever is necessary so you get home,” of fear, distrust, and dehumanization of those deemed as being on “the other side.” They are taught to fear for their lives. They are trained almost exclusively in tactics of violence and repression. They are sent into situations of conflict every day with those limited tools, into communities where they are playing out tensions that have been brewing for hundreds of years.

Reversing some of that would be a good start, I think.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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7mins In the bush 13 Jul 16 8.13pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston And if you have been the victim of racism by police, why do you refuse to follow this to the logical conclusion that a racist cop - or at least one influenced by negative stereotypes - who has lethal force at his disposal, is going to react differently to blacks than whites? Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.48pm) I don't follow the logic that someone who "may" have negative views of a racial group is likely to use his or her gun. I don't think the cases mentioned show any element of racism. I think if they were dealing with some redneck they would act in a similar fashion. I think it's a poverty thing, not a black/white thing (although the dude who shot the fella in the car was Asian)
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7mins

In the bush 13 Jul 16 8.13pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Edited by Ray in Houston (13 Jul 2016 6.48pm)

I don't follow the logic that someone who "may" have negative views of a racial group is likely to use his or her gun.

I don't think the cases mentioned show any element of racism. I think if they were dealing with some redneck they would act in a similar fashion. I think it's a poverty thing, not a black/white thing (although the dude who shot the fella in the car was Asian)

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7mins In the bush 13 Jul 16 8.16pm
Alton Stirling was tasered first... If cops are subliminal racists, why did they try non lethal means first? Also... If the gun was concealed in his pocket, why did the cop shout "he has a gun" ? Remember, the police were wearing body cameras and knew they were being filmed.
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7mins

In the bush 13 Jul 16 8.16pm

Alton Stirling was tasered first... If cops are subliminal racists, why did they try non lethal means first?
Also... If the gun was concealed in his pocket, why did the cop shout "he has a gun" ? Remember, the police were wearing body cameras and knew they were being filmed.

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7mins In the bush 13 Jul 16 8.18pm
.... Only 2 people know how close Stirling was to getting his gun, and those two tried non lethal means first AND shouted a warning.
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7mins

In the bush 13 Jul 16 8.18pm

.... Only 2 people know how close Stirling was to getting his gun, and those two tried non lethal means first AND shouted a warning.

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 8.24pm
Originally posted by 7mins I don't follow the logic that someone who "may" have negative views of a racial group is likely to use his or her gun. Then, to quote John McLane, you haven't been keeping up with current events, pal. But don't take my word for it. Listen to the experiences of one of the surgeons who worked on the shot Dallas cops from last week. [Link] Originally posted by 7mins I don't think the cases mentioned show any element of racism. I think if they were dealing with some redneck they would act in a similar fashion. I think it's a poverty thing, not a black/white thing (although the dude who shot the fella in the car was Asian) Here's 8 white guys who pointed guns at cops and lived. [Link] We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 8.24pm

Originally posted by 7mins

I don't follow the logic that someone who "may" have negative views of a racial group is likely to use his or her gun.

Then, to quote John McLane, you haven't been keeping up with current events, pal.

But don't take my word for it. Listen to the experiences of one of the surgeons who worked on the shot Dallas cops from last week.
[Link]

Originally posted by 7mins

Here's 8 white guys who pointed guns at cops and lived.
[Link]

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 8.29pm
Originally posted by 7mins Alton Stirling was tasered first... If cops are subliminal racists, why did they try non lethal means first? Also... If the gun was concealed in his pocket, why did the cop shout "he has a gun" ? Remember, the police were wearing body cameras and knew they were being filmed. Yeah? Well at least one State is working on "fixing" that. Quote North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) signed a bill into law on Monday that makes police dashboard camera and body camera footage exempt from the public record. [Link] We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 8.29pm

Originally posted by 7mins

Yeah? Well at least one State is working on "fixing" that.

Quote

North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) signed a bill into law on Monday that makes police dashboard camera and body camera footage exempt from the public record.

[Link]

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 13 Jul 16 8.29pm
Originally posted by 7mins .... Only 2 people know how close Stirling was to getting his gun, and those two tried non lethal means first AND shouted a warning. Three people, not two. One is dead and thus unable to add his voice to the debate. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 13 Jul 16 8.29pm

Originally posted by 7mins

.... Only 2 people know how close Stirling was to getting his gun, and those two tried non lethal means first AND shouted a warning.

Three people, not two. One is dead and thus unable to add his voice to the debate.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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