The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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jamiemartin721  Reading 08 Nov 16 3.05pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Evolution. Capitalism is not sustainable in it's current form. It must recognise that it's own desire to profit must be tempered with it's duty to the human race. There can be no profit in a world where the economy has collapsed. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Nov 2016 1.30pm) Ironically, that is where Marx argued that Communism would come from - The collapse of capitalism under its own weight, would be the cause of change. Whilst I agree with you, the problems of capitalism cannot be stemmed by governments, without those governments unified against corporate interests. And the problem is, that corporate interests have the capacity to influence nations against a common interest, by offering a better interest for single nations. Much like when the West has pursed capitalist and protected corporate interests in the exploitation of the third world, provided that it could share in the riches.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 08 Nov 16 5.34pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Ironically, that is where Marx argued that Communism would come from - The collapse of capitalism under its own weight, would be the cause of change. Whilst I agree with you, the problems of capitalism cannot be stemmed by governments, without those governments unified against corporate interests. And the problem is, that corporate interests have the capacity to influence nations against a common interest, by offering a better interest for single nations. Much like when the West has pursed capitalist and protected corporate interests in the exploitation of the third world, provided that it could share in the riches. Indeed. The only way to steer them in the right direction is via the ballot box. We need people who actually take responsibility for the interests of their citizens rather than just paying lip service to it. Seeking advantage against other nations via capitalism is a recipe for disaster but the rules of survival are at play. What price will we pay in the competition? There must be some collective understanding that we must preserve the relative paradise that we enjoy now and resist the threat of globalisation, mass migrations and the steady and unnecessary destruction of planet Earth for greed.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Nov 16 5.44pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Although, Saunders did surprisingly well. Of course Trump is the establishment - Not representing Business, but actually being business. I don't think so much he represents a 'protest' in the way maybe UKIP did, but an internal disgust at the core of republicans, which saw the Tea Party splinter off its lunatic fringe, and is increasingly losing it working class base. Republican politics in the US is split between moderates, corporate interest representatives, the religious right, the wealthy and working joes. In the same way Labour has seen problems here, the Republican Trump, is effectively their Corbyn - Lots of grass roots, core republican supporters, no real support within the party itself - Effectively those ordinary, key Republicans have been alienated by the party, but not so much as to become democratic voters, instead like in the Labour party they've been sparked by an outsider from the fringe, who appeals on a level they engage with. Just like Corbyn with the 'old left' over New Labour. Trump appeals to that alienated right wing, working class. All true, but although Trump is a product of capitalism he is running with the promise of an anti establishment manifesto. Sometimes you have to jump into bed with rather undesirable people to achieve a goal. A victory for Clinton will be back to business as usual and her victory will be due in large part to Mexican migrants. You remember, the kind of people who you claimed a few days ago, would not significantly influence politics in the UK. Pay close attention because you are looking at our future.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 Nov 16 8.38pm |
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[Tweet Link]
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Nov 16 8.42pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
[Tweet Link]So let's just ignore the will of the people and hide behind Parliamentary procedure. Do you know what this says about you?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 Nov 16 8.47pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So let's just ignore the will of the people and hide behind Parliamentary procedure. Do you know what this says about you? No go on. Baring in mind that i've said on here numerous times that we should follow the result of the referendum, but don't let that cloud your judgement. Do you have a problem with someone posting evidence that the referendum result is non binding. Edited by nickgusset (08 Nov 2016 8.49pm)
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| Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 08 Nov 16 8.50pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So let's just ignore the will of the people and hide behind Parliamentary procedure. Do you know what this says about you? No go on. If they don't like it fcuk 'em! Even after your edit, it's what you mean. Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (08 Nov 2016 8.53pm)
Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Nov 16 8.52pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
No go on. Baring in mind that i've said on here numerous times that we should follow the result of the referendum, but don't let that cloud your judgement. Do you have a problem with someone posting evidence that the referendum result is non binding. Edited by nickgusset (08 Nov 2016 8.49pm) You have said a lot of things Gusset. Most of what you say is disingenuous I suspect.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 Nov 16 8.53pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You have said a lot of things Gusset. Most of what you say is disingenuous I suspect. Go on, what does it say about me?
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| legaleagle 08 Nov 16 8.55pm |
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Do you know what this says about you? So,after a load of now seemingly meaningless codswallop from so many Brexiters about the desirability of Brexit to take back our "sovereignty" (woops sorry meant kick out immigrants), we just ignore our constitutional law,honed over centuries, because the Judges inconveniently remind us of the paramountcy of parliament and remind us that the executive needs to refer matters to parliament. Nothing to do with ignoring the will of the people.Just reminding the executive it's a long established principle that it can't use royal prerogative powers to override parliament when it comes to revoking treaties. Its called due process..its what we Brits are supposed to be so proud of in relation to our "sovereignty"... Complying with constitutional rules might be a drag (and from time to time piss off those of all political persuasions) buts it's what separates us from places where "enemies of the people" is something heard about on a regular basis... Enemies of the people? Jesus wept... Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So let's just ignore the will of the people and hide behind Parliamentary procedure. Do you know what this says about you? Edited by legaleagle (08 Nov 2016 8.58pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 Nov 16 8.57pm |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
So,after a load of now seemingly meaningless codswallop from so mant Brexiters about the desirability of Brexit to take back our "sovereignty" (woops sorry meant kick out immigrants), we just ignore our constitutional law,honed over centuries, because the Judges inconveniently remind us of the paramountcy of parliament and remind us that the executive needs to refer matters to parliament. Nothing to do with ignoring the will of the people.Just reminding the executive it's a long established principle that it can't use royal prerogative powers to override parliament when it comes to revoking treaties. Its called due process..its what we Brits are supposed to be so proud of in relation to our "sovereignty"... Complying with constitutional rules might be a drag (and from time to time piss off those of all political persuasions) buts it#s what separates us from places where "enemies of the people" is something heard about on a regular basis... Enemies of the people? Jesus wept... Edited by legaleagle (08 Nov 2016 8.57pm) But friends with the news of the world
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Nov 16 9.16pm |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Do you know what this says about you? So,after a load of now seemingly meaningless codswallop from so many Brexiters about the desirability of Brexit to take back our "sovereignty" (woops sorry meant kick out immigrants), we just ignore our constitutional law,honed over centuries, because the Judges inconveniently remind us of the paramountcy of parliament and remind us that the executive needs to refer matters to parliament. Nothing to do with ignoring the will of the people.Just reminding the executive it's a long established principle that it can't use royal prerogative powers to override parliament when it comes to revoking treaties. Its called due process..its what we Brits are supposed to be so proud of in relation to our "sovereignty"... Complying with constitutional rules might be a drag (and from time to time piss off those of all political persuasions) buts it's what separates us from places where "enemies of the people" is something heard about on a regular basis... Enemies of the people? Jesus wept... Edited by legaleagle (08 Nov 2016 8.58pm) Yes it is due process and it's not designed to over rule a democratic vote....and it won't,trust me.
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