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April 29 2024 5.22pm

Corbyn and the whip

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 30 Jan 17 4.13pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

He can and he has.

While I obviously had my tongue firmly in my cheek he has had to backtrack a few times.

Labour are pretty screwed over Brexit. Large swathes of traditional Labour voters voted for Brexit because they were unhappy. Arguably Corbyn has recognised this and is now trying to stop losing more ground to UKIP

However the a large proportion of Corbyn's support appear to be pro Europe (ironically) and now he is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Jan 17 7.04pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

I think the labour vote was 70/30 remain/leave.

In which case you have to sacrifice the 30% but continue to listen.

You can't win an election otherwise IMO.

That's what labour don't get - where is their vote to come from in order to have a chance of an election win.


 

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Hoof Hearted 31 Jan 17 10.13am

Originally posted by OknotOK

No - I suppose my point was a bit petty. If you'd have said it was one of the many reasons the voting public wouldn't take Corbyn seriously I'd have just moved on. But like I said, that is being petty.

I have accepted that Corbyn set the tone for denying the whip. I am far from convinced it has much impact on the voting public directly, but I do think it allows others to legitimately undermine his leadership and point to his own record to justify it. And that does have impact on the voting public without doubt.

I do stand by the majority of the post though - The Tories are holding themselves in check, but then I think many of the most ardent Remainers in the party have simply exited political or front bench life. But have somehow managed to do so without it looking like a political split (Cameron and Osborne for example). Others have bought into the fact that they are just implementing the popular vote.

But that actually isn't far off the exact same case for Labour. Only 2 have resigned over the stance on Article 50. Even "rebels" like Clive Lewis have said they'll vote in favour now. Those not voting in favour are mostly those form very pro-Remain seats like Stella Creasy.

Plenty of past opposition leaders - mostly Tory - have seen their MPs speak out about Europe, often defying the leadership position. I don't think Corbyn's current "crisis" is worse in that regard. His problem really is that of Labour as a whole on the issue. That they represent some of the most pro-Brexit constituencies, but also some of the most pro-Remain ones. So it is difficult to find a cohesive and coherent strategy to represent their voters.

Thank you for your climbdown on that particular point.

I didn't have a problem with the rest of your post... that's why I didn't respond to it.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 31 Jan 17 9.52pm

An audacious deadline day transfer bid for Jeremy Corbyn from the Liberal Democrats fell through at the last-minute after they were unable to agree personal terms.

The transfer failure will come as a disappointment to the Labour hierarchy who have found that, despite Corbyn’s popularity amongst the fans, he has proven to be an unsettling presence in the dressing room.

Corbyn has been a solid, if unspectacular performer for Labour over the years, operating as a marauding left-winger who could provide sterling support to strikers.

[from 'News Thump']

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 01 Feb 17 12.42pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

An audacious deadline day transfer bid for Jeremy Corbyn from the Liberal Democrats fell through at the last-minute after they were unable to agree personal terms.

The transfer failure will come as a disappointment to the Labour hierarchy who have found that, despite Corbyn’s popularity amongst the fans, he has proven to be an unsettling presence in the dressing room.

Corbyn has been a solid, if unspectacular performer for Labour over the years, operating as a marauding left-winger who could provide sterling support to strikers.

[from 'News Thump']

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 01 Feb 17 9.43pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think the labour vote was 70/30 remain/leave.

In which case you have to sacrifice the 30% but continue to listen.

You can't win an election otherwise IMO.

That's what labour don't get - where is their vote to come from in order to have a chance of an election win.

The problem is where that 30% (I thought it was a bit higher ) came from. Wales, voted to leave as did from memory the N East and N West. The next couple of by elections will be interesting particularly Stoke as UKIP have done a fair bit of damage to labour

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 Feb 17 7.14am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

The unexpected dividend from Brexit is that Jezza has proved he is incapable of leading and is a tool of the establishment.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 02 Feb 17 9.31am Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Yes I am and so are all the other people who post to whom you have sent the same words we all know you.

You are an 'insignificant little worm'.

How do you know I am a insignificant little worm you do not even know me. I suggest you stop with the personal stuff and with regard to "We all know you" bit we ALL know you mate and the rubbish you post on these threads. Get a life and think before you post!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 02 Feb 17 10.12am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

How do you know I am a insignificant little worm you do not even know me. I suggest you stop with the personal stuff and with regard to "We all know you" bit we ALL know you mate and the rubbish you post on these threads. Get a life and think before you post!

I just read your post on the EU you never checked that Ken Clarke's constituency voted remain you are an insignicant little worm

 

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 02 Feb 17 11.00am Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Can you actually name any of Labours policies under Corbyn?

That's a very interesting point. I doubt anyone can who is not fully bought into Corbyn's ideals (whatever they are). The only people who seem to know what he actually stands for are those fully committed to his cause, and he doesn't need to win their support as he already has it. If people are not getting his message, clearly there is an issue with the way the party are getting it out there, isn't there? At the very least, the public should know what he's about, even if they don't choose to agree with him.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 02 Feb 17 11.06am

Originally posted by steeleye20

I just read your post on the EU you never checked that Ken Clarke's constituency voted remain you are an insignicant little worm

Susmik and I are polar opposites politically, yet we often communicate by pm. He has served his country, worked hard and wants what he thinks is best for his loved ones.

Like all of us, he gets some things wrong. This however does not make him an 'insignificant little worm'

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 02 Feb 17 11.13am

Originally posted by npn

That's a very interesting point. I doubt anyone can who is not fully bought into Corbyn's ideals (whatever they are). The only people who seem to know what he actually stands for are those fully committed to his cause, and he doesn't need to win their support as he already has it. If people are not getting his message, clearly there is an issue with the way the party are getting it out there, isn't there? At the very least, the public should know what he's about, even if they don't choose to agree with him.

Whilst I agree that getting the message out there is paramount. When asked many people agree with a lot of what labour are proposing even if they don't know it's a Labour Policy.

Why do you think over 80% of the media don't inform their readers etc of what labour policies are? I'd wager that they are worried people will agree with them so won't publish as it will upset the status quo which allows them to publish anti labour rhetoric from there non UK homes.

 

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